Load sampling

[checking]

Is it a waste of time, and a bunch of pail clutter, or is there a payoff?

Would you do it for all your grains including canola and flax?

[SASKFARMER3]

We do it thanks to Agricor a few years ago delivering couple hundred pails before viterra days. Works on most bins 12000 and 10000 less comments from elevator. But here is a good one sample a durum load in field agent took to town they phoned its a OK with 15% protein so we take it in, the load is dumped and guess what no 15 and its a 2 hm maybe its like shooting fish in a barrel.

[fjlip]

Accu-sampler on swing auger gets 10-15L per load, cup full to 20L pails, then a 4-10L average sample per bin or field if consistent. This gets you an average but protein still varies within the bins, just as our fields vary.

[checking]

Thank you, guys. I have concluded that if a buyer requires a sample, I will take it direct from the hopper bin in the first gulp out, or the front of the door. To do more than that, I think it is busy work. Agree with your assessment on protein.

[redbaron]

It is all about liability now. Not as much grade and protein. We have been keeping samples for years. It has saved our hides a few times. Some of my neighbors are taking samples of loads they take to the terminal now, and keeping them till they know the grain has been shipped out of the terminal and has cleared at the other end. Is it work. Of course. It is only a matter of time before we hear of the first case of a farmer misrepresenting a sale. Imagine the time you would spend if you have nothing to show. I have heard of several cases where the local terminal has been challenged on unlicensed grain in the shipments and asked to anti up. Thanks to their samples they were able to clear themselves. So for me it is all about protecting myself. Just look at the fall out from the flax issue. I am sure there will be a few samples checked over in someone's terminal. I know what i am growing and shipping. So need to make sure I can prove it if challenged. As to grade and protein. ya, you guys are right. all over the board.

[checking]

May I ask the question Redbaron as to who you have as a third party taking and holding onto these farm or terminal samples to verify there is no liability on your part? If it's you, how does that provide you with any insurance? There's a job there for someone that everyone could trust.

[redbaron]

It is a valid point - checking. I do not use third party. So it is all up for question or discretionary calls . Yet it is no different then samples at the terminals we deliver to. They do their own without third party verification. At least the truck unloads from farmers that come in. I would like to say that if you have a history of records - that in dispute at least you have a leg to stand on. Not much different than some of the terminals. I do not want another government licensing body taking samples on my yard as I load. Hopefully we do not come to this.

[wmoebis]

This has always been my question. How many guys even keep a sample of delivery that has been taken at elevator? Most just leave it up to elevator to sample and retain. How do you even know it is your grain on a reinspect or dispute? Or that it hasn't been tampered with?

How many guys know the quality of their grain? Most take the elevators word for it or shop around to find the best they can get but still don't know for sure if this is what it really is.

If you are called to prove your sample can you prove it beyond a reasonable doubt?
I'm not saying companies are less than honest but buisness is buisness and mistakes can happen especially with the massive amount of samples that are on retention at these big terminals.

[bucket]

I get such a kick out of the grain companies. You haul them a few semi loads of grain over two weeks from different fields - it grades what you expect, using their techniques, AND then they start asking for samples. Drives me nuts. I say "jesus H christ I just gave you 5000 bushels of samples".

Then they do an HVk sample using a teaspoon of grain.

[seabass]

Sampling is a joke. You could take 10 samples from one load and all the protein tests would be different. You could take those samples to another elevator and they would all be different. Different varieties is a different story.

[wmoebis]

Does everyone stand there on every load and make sure the elevator is taking an accurate sample and the protien machine is reading and read accurately and that the proper dockage is being assessed and the grade is being applied for proper reason with the proper reasons?

Or am I the only one?

[bucket]

Actually I usually rub the protein machine like a slot machine and talk to it knowing full well its a crap shoot for protein. I don't know why those things are off in the corner. Farmers paid for them and it should be in full view for the producer. I check dockage occassionally.

[wmoebis]

protien machines are not crap shoot they are what I am accepting payment on. They maybe off in the corner for a reason, possably out of way but I always ask to take a look at results ON MACHINE.

I always make sure that the sample is a good representative sample of load, not just a random grab sample. Make sure the sample passes through the borner divider to thoughly mix. Swirling of hand in pail don't cut it with me.
Check the machine that it is calibrated right.
Make sure what shows on machine is what is written down and what you are actually paid for.

[checking]

I've never asked this of a grain buyer, but would you know, wmoebis, if mistakes are made at the elevator, do those benefits flow back to the elevator company on Board grains? Or does everyone in the pool get to share your misfortune, and therefore there is really no company reason for an employee to screw with testing equipment, or write down a false reading?

[wmoebis]

To my knowledge!!!
Grain is integrated into faciity and recorded as shipable stocks. Any grade differences/ protien or dockage is assumed by company. There will be variables both on the plus and negative side and in theory should equal out.
I have asked this question many times. How does my grain sold on initial pymt. as a #2 then blended back into #1 by grain company make it"s way back into the #2 account for interm and final pymts.

Under the Canadian Grain Act grain can ony be blended by terminal elevators with consent of the CGC. This way the CWB and the CGC has record of where the grain is moved and can move commodities in book work.

The new high thoughputs, in my mind ARE terminals, they even tout themseves as being so. But get to play by different rules, as being primary elevators, and can blend on thier own to make shipment grades.

I believe that it is very important that we as producers know how to assess our own quality of grain or have third party do it for us.

I see most famers know what tools to use to produce high quality and quantity crops. Chem, fert, best machinery and farming practices available. But then don't have a clue as to what they have growen and take buyers word on what they have.

Maybe it is just me, but this seems absured. I for one, know everything about my grain before it is offered for sale then see who can blend it up to help me or who has stocks that could use my factor room to help them and what they will do for me to get it.