Interesting report from the CBC

[gustgd]

I would take this from Larry's comments that if we do trade away away govt guarantees we should get something of value from trading partners.
What do we want?

May I be so bold as to suggest a 2% allowable limits for registered GMO material in exports to Europe
or, perhaps elimination of European and US export subsidies.
We can dream can't we

[gustgd]

I can't think of a situation where I would want to have to explain to the Canadian taxpayer why they owe me a cheque.
Lack of imagination I guess but if my federal govt would help to eliminate barriers to entry into foreign and domestic markets that's all I expect.
Keep your cheques for workable safety nets.

[wd9]

Haveapulse, still waiting for that answer.

[haveapulse]

When Canada via the CWB confiscated our wheat in a war measures act that extended well past the period when other industries were released of their obligations.

Calculations of the cost to western farmers of the WWII contributions were estimated some time ago, in real dollars to be 2 billion.

This 2 billion is a direct payout, its origin and justification, is our history as payout from a nation fopr the confiscation our assets to date.

It is fair to estimate that the post CWB time period of adjustment there will be fall out from a system that in the last 60 years has been built upon this institution.

Therefore I note, there are benefits and costs of all institutions. What the CWB does for our industry is to dispense our grain over the course of the year in a term called orderly marketing or systematic dispensation of our grain; a system of orderly logistics.

Orderly marketing or a pool system in a land locked country with limited port access is a concept of great importance, not to be undervalued.
I believe we all benefit from orderly logistics if not orderly marketing!

How do we maintain some sense of orderly logisics. without a pooled system for at least some of our commodities, as we cannot ship all of the grain out at the highest price and continue to farm all of our acres.

In all of the surveys it is noted a great degree of support for a dual market. How do we have a dual market without some assets?

As you know the AWB, unlike our CWB owns assets from inland to the port.
AWB offers a dramatically different approach to the marketing of pooled grain. AWB used its owned assets alongside private assets to move the pooled grain. In Australia the loss of the AWB monoply still left an pooled option and an Australian company whose assets were owned & operated by a group of shareholders many but not all being producers.

In Canada our CWB has used private assets to channel farmers grains. Therefore, in the post CWB time period the challenge for western producers will be to determine the dedicated companies capable of sustaining a global presence. Given our landlocked production zone I believe we need to carefully consider how the movement of grain functions in a post CWB time

4 or the 6 billion would be used to define a dual market option for farmers.

In addition we will need a government coordinated risk insurance program to release capital and enable grain trade for all companies operating in Canada as a replacement of the government funding of the CWB.

[haveapulse]

PS:
And I remember those who called for an end to the CROW rate without prior negotiation of the real value of the transition. The subsequent payout failed to even remotely compensate us for our loss or the cost of shipping grain in the future.

The transition still fresh in our minds, resulted in few benefits to the farmers who called for this change,
until finaly frustration in the industry forced government to have a rail revue after more than a decade of costly fall out.

So please we should be proactive and determine a process of buy out for the CWB, as a supporter or non supporter it it a fact that an institution that has shaped our industry and grain movement for all of our exporting history will have an adjustment period, for the industry. I believe the transition is necessary, and emminent for our industry, and that compensation and restructuring needs to be done to create a new order.

[Kodiak]

Oh come on.

1. It will take the industry literally hours to make the adjustments necessary if the CWB disappeared down a rabit hole by 6:00 PM today. By tomorrow morning they'll have cash bids for you and have the transportation booked.

2. Let's not try to suck and blow at the same time - it looks really foolish. If we believe the CWB costs us all because of poor marketing performnace, inefficient transportation, and assorted other incompetencies it's nonsense to ask for "compensation" if the market is opened up.

3. We should be asking for compensation if they DON'T remove the monopoly, not if they do. That's something I think many would support.

[Fransisco]

Some folks just can't get over their desire for free government money. I've never really understood why someone would actually want to be a welfare bum.

[LWeber]

Franny:

I'm trying to determine if you walk the talk and sent the welfare cheques back or if you are a hypocrite.

Since you began farming, have you ever cashed a cheque from the Government of Canada or the Government of Manitoba as it relates to agriculture - a cheque that taxpayers funded?

a Yes or No answer is that is required.

[charliep]

Larry

Just to clear, are you saying that negotiators gave up government
guarantees too quickly with limited offset by other WTO countries
(realizing nobody has given up anything at WTO including Canada
since nothing has been agreed to)? Or the CWB government
guarantees provide a net benefit that farmers should be
compensated for if they are lost in negotiations? What is the
benefit and how do measure it? Covering transactional risk?
Guaranteeing initial payments? Is there no other lower cost way to
do this?

If compensation is made should it be to all farmers as individual
payout for losses or a lump sum payment to a new type of CWB that
allows them to set up a contingency fund or some other mechanism
that will increase their chance of survival?

[Fransisco]

It's kind of a silly question Larry, here's what it looks like in reverse.

Have you ever been part of a transaction in which there was no government money involved? If so then you must be a hypocrite as well.

Yes, I've cashed my share of government cheques. I don't think there's a farmer out there who hasn't. So what! That doesn't make it right. That doesn't mean I have to like it. And it certainly doesn't mean I can't say so when somebody goes cap in hand, supposedly on my behalf, for another B-train full of taxpayers money.

There's lots of things about my farm, farming and my colleagues that I am proud of. There are a lot of smart, honest, hard working, productive people in the ag sector.

But I have to admit that I am embarrassed by all of the ones who feel that the world owes them a living, who wake up every morning looking for the next handout and cry themselves to sleep every night because the crow is dead. It was a stupid policy that never should have been implemented in the first place. Get over it already.

I don't want or need any compensation for making the wheat board voluntary. Kodiak's right, if anything we should be asking for compensation if they DON'T remove the monopoly.

[parsley]

Has the Federal Government met their financial obligations the debts they accumulated pre termination time?

Has anyone on this thread spent time doing an accounting of the debts still owing on foreign sales? And owing from Government-terminated wheat sales?

Good thing to check.

The Federal Government would undoubtdly be more than happy to download their financial burdens on farmers.

Pars

[bduke]

The last info I had is that credit sales were
guaranteed by the GoC.... and the Gov't would
rather pay the 3 to 5 per cent interest over the BoC
rate than absorb the debt.

By paying this interest to the CWB the loans were
technically being serviced, and hence no breach of
accounting rules.

However, that was for sales of many years ago, so
your point is well taken.

Does anyone know if the CWB has sold grain on
credit with out the GoC guarantee?

The BoD should know.... Bill