A little bit panicked, need advice. PLEASE HELP!!!

[husker]

Your not going to be the only one in this boat. Just make sure you take care of yourself and your family. The iron is just that just iron. and communication is the key to dealing with any of your lenders

[skhadenuf]

Gotta agree with Bucket somewhat, here's some irony for you, I see cropinsurance is advertising jobs for Ritz's Cais. Get a job there you'll know more than most of those that will be your boss but what the hell every second friday money in the bank, will likely net more than many farmers anywhere will this year. You can hear your supreme leader Ritz proclaiming in the media all the millions for agriculture and you will look around at the hundreds of comrads working at you Cais office and realize where it's going to. Then some young farmer will call you up after he freezes out in august next year, explaining just the same things that happenned to you, you will sympathize and truly understand try to juggle the numbers in his favor but in the end you will find piss all for him. This as you sit back in your leather seated chair sipping on a latte, thinking I am glad I'm not that poor bastard anymore.

[vvalk]

Just wondering how you can afford to pay 35% or more tax on buying land when you can pay 14% as a corporation.

[mbratrud]

I disagree Bucket, no matter what you do adversity will be thrown at you. Farming is a good lifestyle and career. There is always going to be bumps in the road no matter what you do. I have worked off the farm and now I farm and work, sometimes its frustrating as hell but most of the time its extreemly rewarding. If you are putting your families well being in jepardy thats one thing but if you can see yourself and family through the adversity it makes you stronger.

[parsley]

Just IMHO. Some of you will get your hackles up again when you read:

IMHO, Money is going to be hard to get.

Banks and lenders are quietly scaling back loans, and carefully assessing clients. They don't have to loan you money.

Interest rates will rise.

The most important tool you will have for a successful farm, is your credit rating. Your character.

Both will be based upon your ability as well as your history in repaying a loan. The amount of effort you go to to repay and make payments. Your deception or your forthrightness. Your manipulation or full disclosure. Your degree of tantrum-throwing will be noted and graded.

Your past finacial habits will either keep you in good stead, or come back to haunt you.

And not just one bank will know your habits, but each bank will know them.

You may attempt transferring, numbered companies, defaulting, bankruptcy, hiding sales, deception, but this is a new era, and I again say, your best tool for farming is your credit rating and your character.

Look at Sask. Producers' net income in the last 3 years:

2007 2008 2009

Farm Market Receipts 157,228 199,314 188,847


Program Payments 18,159 14,159 20,221

Farm Expenses 143,288 178,034 166,539

Net Operating Income 32,099 35,438 42,529

Without Government Program 13,940 21,279 22,308


Play banker, and read that last line twice.

That's the average farmers money left in your pocket less the Government subsidies. Most of you on AV are average farmers. Most farmers are obviously not financial geniuses, either.

Governments don't HAVE any money to give you. They are going to cut back still further. Even on pension plans.

So as a banker, I see you sitting there asking for a bunch more money, and I'm looking at your bottom line, I ask how in the world are you going to pay it back if it freezes early next year?

Now, I will talk twice to the guy who shows me he will add a little income, however he can. jobs are not beneath him. It's called good faith. It's good-intention. Something called character. He's maybe got two kids and made the average $22,308 last year, but he's got squat this year, but he's game.

And he's the guy who won't cop out and leave the local mechanic and the local grocer and the local hardware store big bills, when others bankrupt their debts as a practical measure, some will even try transferring funds to Brother Harry in Detroit when the banker pipes his payback time tune.

I cross-examine a few bankers now and again, but they sure are a different kind than the ones some of you boys think you will be dealing with.

For any young fellow,with a heavy debt load, I will reiterate what I believe to be the most important farming tool you have:

Guard your credit rating and your financial integrity.

And let your banker know you don't believe the rest of the world owes you a living. IMHO.

Pars

[parsley]

Should read:

however he can incorporate a few cutbacks, at the same time as showing cash-flow part time jobs are not beneath him

[AG_guy]

Don't d0 anything stupid !!! Talk to friends , family, your bank, a lawyer maybe another bank or every bank in your area. Make a plan there has been ALOT of ideas thrown out to you that are great. If you can squeeze buy with your payments then go work out. If you have a class one you should be o.k you might be away from home a while but it's what it takes.

You still need to farm next year so make a plan for that. Your in a bit of a bind but ask for help it's out there. Nobody wants to see a guy go under.

[AG_guy]

Tell us your aprox location and give us a email adress. Not with your real name have a gmail or hotmail one. Can you drive a truck what can you do. There is alot of guys who read this maybe one is looking for help. Post this on all message boards you never know what help will come your way. We all specialize in something.

[dmlfarmer]

All of the economic advice you have recieved on this thread is great and valuable but is all meaningless unless you protect your physical and mental health.
I am guessing as an smart young guy you already knew and probably have already did most of what has been suggested.
However, your age, independance, and work ethic is probably preventing you from dealing with the biggest threat, the stress that is building.
I know first hand of how damaging stress becomes. Of how you can no longer make decisions, or concentrate, of how you can either not sleep or not get up, of the anxiety that never goes away. Worse yet, is the inability for many to even recognize these are symptoms of real physical problems, and that like any disease, if not addressed will get worse.
I don't know if Saskatchewan has a farm stress line but I know Manitoba does. 1-866-367-3276.
Reaching out to this list is great, but I really think you need more postive support than what you will get on angerville.
Communication is key, and not just with your lenders or banker. Call a farm stress line if available or check with your local mental health or even family doctor to address the stress you are under and to protect your health and emotional stability.
Believe me, once you address the mental and and even physical pain that is building from your situation, the economics becomes a lot easier to address. Wishing you all the best!!!

[skhadenuf]

I don't think you add character to a farmer just because he needs to go get some job because he's not being compensated for the work done on the farm. The character is and always was there for farmers. It's the other part of society skimming and scheming that could use a mental adjustment. Not sure of how many jobs you get are going to pay your inputs well actually I do NONE maybe if your organic.
Don't give me that bullshit there is no money, there is tons of it at government and at the banks it's a question of who it's going to. The banks would have been gone a long time ago just read the headlines of their profit, in both good and bad times for the rest of us.
You Pars need to look at those bottom numbers their pathetic, look at the add on wealth created at the next level off of us producing the raw product Compare the 2 numbers. Get freakin real,some job isn't going to save no farm

[frustrated1]

Once you realize the panic attacks aren't a heart condition it gets easier. I was hailed out 100% my first year of farming about a week after I brought my first combine home. There have been other years that have been worse. Key here is you have a good track record and crop insurance(however minimal it may be). You are not the only one with crop out and the bank will realize that and that you have potential. There is no off farm job that could cover my debt BUT getting up and doing something to put food on the table every day is good for your mental state. Sitting in the house stewing all winter is not. I have never left crop out but this year it's looking bleak. I've already talked to the banker "just in case". Their immediate family farms and has over 5000 acres left. They know. Remember you are not alone.

[bucket]

Telling a farmer to get an off farm job. Yeah just brilliant. Have you ever heard any union member be told to go get another job if they don't like there wages. Farmers who work off farm to sustain the farm are technically financing the world. It makes no sense.

Go back to a full time job and enjoy your life.

[Burbert]

Spring combining is dirty and messy, at times, however, the longer days and very dry conditions are advantages. We've been snowed in a couple of times, heck in the Peace country they always harvest in the Spring. Feed grains are the order of the day. Sometimes these grains are in demand and you get better prices than Fall harvested. ** On one occassion, crop insurance made a snowed under payment, then there was a wildlife claim, then crop insurance paid to clean poop out of grain, feed prices had risen, and Spring crop was sold for more than Fall harvest. Then crop insurance paid for production shortfall, then we ran into income tax problems and got scured by the Feds** Don't dispare, lots of the big guys are in trouble this year, and their collective snivelling and whinning will prevail. It always does. Don't cound on house sitting though, that WILL NOT pay the bills, LOLing!!!!!!

[freewheat]

Man guys, I appreciate your suggestions and help.

I do run a seed cleaning plant in the winter, which will put food on the table. It is just that I have many upgrades I need to make to the mill to get it running well again, and no funds to do that. The other thing is the overwhelming fact that it would take about 10 of these plants running to have much affect on my farm needs. I am glad I have crop insurance, the thing is the WHEN of getting any cash flow.

Can't see the lawn again this morning for the snow.

I sure do appreciate the support. I gotta go now and make some calls, but I always look forward to checking this thread, as having guys who understand is a welcome boost.

[Choice2U]

There is a little truth in all that has been said:
1. Farmers should not have to have 2 jobs but I know non-farmers that work extra hours too.
2. Make-do with your plant as long as it is making money. $ spent to gain more business is good but $ spent right now to get people done faster and then wait is not $ spent wisely.
3. We know a job here or there will never cover one's farm bills but keeping yourself busy gives your mind something else to think about, may pay for some of the smaller bills and helps with the overall attitude.
4. Crop Insurance/CAIS/etc are all there to help but were never designed to fix problems. Communication with these folks can be frustrating but if you deal with them using a positive attitude, it should help.
5. Not sure if you have any equity in the operation or not but checking with other lenders (FCC, CU, or banks) and seeing if one can restructure loans with different repayment terms can help on the cash flow. Fortunately, you have all winter to consider a restructure. FCC has special financing for those under 40. Not sure if it is a benefit or not but I would suggest you check into it.
5. Get out of bed and get going every morning no matter how bad you feel. Surround yourself with people that have positive attitudes so you draw strength from them rather than being around those that drain energy from you.
6. Most importantly, take care of yourself and remember that most of us Agri-villers have gone through times that we would rather forget but we all are still here.