Think outside the bin

[ianben]

ado089
The current argument we are having is a lose-lose situation. No one is asking the right questions or demmanding the right changes. I agree

Chaffmeister
The argument needs to be about the good of the whole industry - producer, handler, processor, consumer. Think outside the bin.
Thanks Chaff for the title and I would be interested in your comments

burbert
Most farmers and have experienced the cheating and lying in the market, when buyers downgrade, grain they are purchasing. Amazing number of reasons to downgrade, to wet, to dry, to thin, to thick, high protein, low protein, chitted, not chitted, moldy, mildewy, heated and rotten, germination no good, germination to good, smut, ergot, wild oats, to light, to heavy, stained, fusarium g, the worst kind, tough, damp, shrunken, broken, peeled, over threshed, under threshed, foreign matter, spring threshed, damaged due to hail, wind blown, mouse chewed, duck bit, goose downed, bleached, blackened kernel tips, auger damaged, nitrated poisoned, cows don't like your grain, due to poor farming, the list goes on, and on. In fact it is endless. The only time your grain is any good at all, is when there is a shortage of the stuff, then the buys will call you sir, when you sell it. They still won't pay what its worth, but they do call you sir, while cheating you!

I dont agree with this but know many do

I think the reverse is also true. I think farmers are seen by our customers as cheats for delivering off spec or contaminated goods.

Obviously not agood situation for either side.

Think outsie the box?

Ebay
list exactly what you got, deer poop and all with feedback to keep bothsides honest.
Auction or Buy it Now

Autotrader
Search location and specification local or worldwide. How can we expect a customer to know what we have got unless we tell them.

Online airline ticket sales

Prices increase as more sales are made. These new airlines seem to have shown the established ones the way.

Could a commodity trading site which combined all the above provide a better service to all parties and allow a bit more respect and trust on both sides.

Think outside the bin!

[bucket]

its called alilibaba.com. People looking for good quantities of wheat and durum all the time

[ianben]

Bucket.
I could not find that site but doesnt sound like farmers marketing and providing a service more like buyers trying to secure a supply.
We have one here www.grainman.co.uk

Perhaps an example from recent posts might help

tipsy posted Nov 14, 2009 22:23
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Some time in the next couple of day's barring any unforeseen circumstances,we plan to start harvesting our flax,if possible.So,on Friday I thought I would phone around to see if any-one is buying flax,at what price,how tough and what discounts for tough.Out of five phone calls three elevators arn't buying or don't have a price,one isn't buying period and one never phone back, so you interpret that how ever you want.Question is, does anyone know of an elevator that is buying flax and what the price is?

Tipsy posts on site 100tonnes flax grade? moisture 12% on three day auction

[ianben]

Must have clicked wrong button continue
Ron posted Nov 8, 2009 0:12
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The last load was 9.8%. I have a batch dryer about to sit idle for a while. Anybody need canola dried near Agri***** in Lacombe? 400 bu batch, I have dried 18% plus, recirculating batch, no fires etc.

Ron does a search for high moisture lots within trucking distance of his farm.
Buys Tipsy flax for $7.00
Flax is as described and ron gives tipsy good rating

Ron drys the flax and checks the grade lists it on site after reading tipsys reply on here posted Nov 14, 2009 22:28
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Phone a broker - lots of flax traded last week at 9.00 and 9.60 FOB

Johnsons ($9.00) and Rayglen ($9.60)

It has to be dry and grade milling.

It is milling grade so Ron lists it at $9.70 Buy it now.
Johnsons and Rayglen both bid as Ron has good feedback. Ron chooses who he sells to based on their feedback and of course delivers dry milling flax.

Perhaps more effort and responsibility but both guys managed to post on here.

[mbratrud]

This has been attempted AJBAT has been around a long time... I believe Merv Bercheid currently has one set up.. The Problem is traffic. These sites are just simply before their time. There is still a high percentage of producers that don't use the computer very well.

[bucket]

ianben

Try google and type in durum buyers.

It may be alibaba.com - I added a an extra "li" to the word

[charliep]

One feed grain broker in Alberta who is doing for customers (buyers
and sellers) in an internet based product. A posted (members only) bid
offer process that is available to participants and results in a real visible
traded value. You can actually watch the business coming together on
the computer.

Many farmers not comfortable with the processing of setting their own
price/offering for sale. Not sure why. Perhaps a prairie thing.

For Canadians, do you have a price you would sell your next "B" train (40
tonnes) of crop for? Next week. Next month. Next spring. Does your
customer base know what this price is? Are you comfortable with a bid
offer process that will result in a completed sale (similar to what you do
with a piece of equipment when you are the buyer/not the seller)?

[chaffmeister]

Ianben –

Another way to say what I said: any changes or improvements must avoid favouring one stakeholder group over another – even farmers. This is the main problem with the single desk attitude. They believe there is only a finite amount of wealth in the business and for farmers to gain, others have to lose – grain companies must take less for handling, RRs charge less for hauling, processors pay more for grain. The concept that everyone can gain is beyond their logic.

Hallmarks of a vibrant market are competition, efficiency, innovation, creativity, service and integrity. Whatever we do to improve our market structures should embrace or foster one or more of these.

If the CWB and its supporters ever successfully addressed these, they just might have a viable marketing option. Note I said option. The single desk doesn’t fit with any of these.

[ianben]

Thanks Bucket
Found it now. More wanteds than for sale.

Thanks mbratrud

Registered but not gained acess yet, interesting though.

Ebay had about 800 listing in total the first time I visited. Facebook from nothing in three years.

Chicken and egg senario but does a good idea come through?

Thanks Charlie

Many farmers not comfortable with the processing of setting their own
price/offering for sale. Not sure why. Perhaps a prairie thing.

Perhaps a farmer thing.
Just blame everyone else because they should know whats in my bin and what price I desire.

Thanks Chaffmeister

The concept that everyone can gain is beyond their logic.

Hallmarks of a vibrant market are competition, efficiency, innovation, creativity, service and integrity. Whatever we do to improve our market structures should embrace or foster one or more of these.

Would this concept in any way meet your criteria?

Think outside the bin!

[chaffmeister]

competition: yes - buyers and sellers competing in the same place

efficiency: yes - reduces the "search cost" of finding trading partners.

innovation: yes - technology meets bartering

creativity: yes - online trading wasn't even thought of only a few years ago

service: time will tell - how do you know who is going to service you well?

integrity: time will tell - there are numerous stories / warnings about dealing with people on these sites (alibaba.com in particular)

[Hopperbin]

Ian we are starting to use a lot of target pricing here with our buyers so that is a way of the farmer saying I want this price for a specific time period for sale, you give it to me and the grain is sold. Has been working well for me. Offboard grains can most often be sold for more than the price posted. Perhaps buyers like it, a real price that they know will trigger a sale.

[ianben]

Chaffmeister

Service and integrity would have ebay type feedback where buyers rate sellers and sellers rate buyers on every trade.

One of the most important aspects in my view as bothsides need to be honourable or the whole world will see.

The cheats on both sides will soon be outed and left to deal with each other.

I saw no sign of feedback on alibaba.

Still no password for AJBAT

Hopper

Could you explain a little more on what and how you are doing these deals

[checking]

Some of us won't participate in targets and tonnage requests, Ianben.

As I see it, targets give buyers too much information, and that is not in my interest to provide more than a second forward in time. I'm not a Wal-Mart store with a price tag to see on each item.

Lots of my neighbours, however, love them as they say they haven't the time in a day to follow markets, enough of a volume to worry about, or the patience to wait for unseen circumstances that usually present themselves to drive prices beyond their target.

Target prices, however, are splendid devices for grain buyers to fill their needs. I absolutely know why buyers love them, as there is no guess work, or incentive on their part to go beyond a group of targets that fill their orders.

The lowest price is the law - I've heard!

[Hopperbin]

The target price is a contract signed with a grain buyer like I said before a certain amount of tons for a certain price and also a delivery period with understanding of what quality or even moisture. What I like about it is often grain buyers give hints as to what targets are hitting. Unlike Checking who does not like to use targets I like them and 90 percent of the time will price higher than current offers. I still watch the grain prices especially if I have a target. The reason being I want my target to be at least .25 to .5 dollars per bushel higher than the market. Also I have had my targets hit above my asking price say if the general offered price for the day comes out higher than my target they will give me the higher price. I tell you I come back to these grain buyers. I have no problem with this open market system. I don't think you need to have a lot of grain either to use them, my tonnages are usually only 5 to 10 thousand bushel lots but can be anything really. It is convenient for the buyers I believe as they need to make the sale on the other end. I believe it takes some risk out for the grain companies. which can work back to your favour. I can withdraw a target price at any time or increase decrease tonnage or price. To use these targets successfully I believe one must watch the market also daily to be more successful. One last thing if I offer say canola 9 dollars per bushel for the next week. In 2 days if the price rises I can increase my target, withdraw my target all together all options are in the farmer's hands until the target is hit, in which case the buyer phones you and tells you and the sale is done.

[cottonpicken]

Been trying to figure your angle for a while chaffy,someday i will.

50,000 sellers and a few dozen buyers=everything a o k

in your world

not mine

My farm was growing wheat before the board,the reasons it was brought in should not be forgcotton.
Things dont need to stay the same butt...
The problems will be overcome by farmers united not divided.


Lots of sharks looking to CAPITALIZE of someone elses sweat.What can i sell ya?What your sellin i dont need that bad,unless its cheap.