Carbon credits

[bluefargo]

What is everyones experience with carbon credits. I haven't gotten around to doing anything about them yet.

Have you all sold them?
What are they worth these days?
Who to deal with?

Viterra sent out a letter this summer implying they were buying credits in Alberta where legislation is in place.
Hows that working out? Apparently Saskatchewan's legislation isn't quite there yet.

There is (was) an outfit in Regina buying and listing credits on the Chicago(?) exchange.

Anyway I'm sure there are a few of us that would appreciate a discussion on this.

Thanks in advance

[frustrated1]

Good question. I actually just tossed out the propoganda from a meeting I had been to last winter. The two middle men involved were each making a lot more money than the farmer. And it seems like there were a lot more questions raised than answered. For example liabilities. If some govt official happens by when the old ford is spewing out black smoke, are we using someone elses credit? If there is toxic waste spewed forth from a plant claiming to be using a credit we sold, who's liable? Sounds stupid I know but have you dealt with govt of late? Also had read an article where a farm was trying to buy up some extra credit in case we happened to be put under scrutiny for our operations.(they were quite intensive and seems there was a lot of trucking involved} That was a year ago. I don't know of anyone around here who's done any more than talk. Maybe the numbers crunch out better now. The only positive about the proposal was they'd do up to 5 years retroactive. Which, if it was the bsst deal, you might as well collect from the last five years. Seems to me it will go one of two ways. The absurd idea will take off and the credits will be worth something, or, someone with some common sense will clue in that buying absolution really doesn't solve any problems. But I'd still take a cheque if it could be proven there are no strings attached. Funny though, most cheques have fine print attached. Just a cynical old guys humble opinion. Sorry, CAIS made me this way.

[redbaron]

You might find this interesting.

The following paragraph appears in the terms and conditions of the new Manitoba Environmental Farm and Sustainable Agriculture Action Plans:

“10.6 Any carbon offset credits achieved from greenhouse gas reductions and removals through BMPs incented by the Program will be owned by the Province of Manitoba and the applicant(s) in proportion to the original contributions provided for the project by same until the retirement or sale of credits.” Version 2.1, Terms and Conditions, Manitoba Sustainable Agriculture Practices Program, August 31, 2009.

There is no other mention in any program document on this claim and the Province has yet to put forth any additional details. There is a possibility that participation in these programs can affect a producers ability to collect carbon offset credits in the future.

So we need to be very careful of this whole program. Before you sign. Especially in MB.

[burnt]

David Suzuki thinks they are wonderful. Well they are, too. They allow him to jet all over the world while we walk!!

Isn't that wonderful?? :-)

Carbon credits are just one more way for a few to make money on the backs of the many who will blindly fall into line and swallow the bullshit that the traders/"scientists" propagate.

If you are trading carbon credits, you might want to consider getting out before the whole thing collapses, if you have been following the news.

[bluefargo]

Thanks for the comments guys.
Frustrated1 you are absolutely right that there is big bucks to be made by the middle men. But what else is new!

Yes, buying absolution. You've hit the nail on the head. I too think we are going to wake up someday and the world will realize the King has no clothes.

But in the meantime the question remains - Are we leaving money on the table by not taking advantage of the fact someone wants to buy the credits?
I have neighbours who have been selling credits for several years now.
I'm not sure why I haven't jumped on the bandwagon except that I thought the price might go up. I also have concerns about the liability aspect. I wonder if the Alberta & Sask. legislation deals with this.

Actually, the price isn't that much (only a few bucks per acre). But I guess you could argue even a few bucks is a pretty good price for, ah, nothing

[frustrated1]

True, a few bucks over even a few acres times 5 years makes one decent cheque. And if there is no liability attached we should be all over it before it disappears. When I asked the liability question at the meeting the guy basically laughed at me. And are we giving away rights to credits we ourselves need in the future? Neither of them could give me answers when pressed about it and it wasn't so funny anymore. Also, they wanted to do the bookeeping at a cost. Even though you had to prove all the paperwork, their filling in the blanks was going to take almost as much as you ended up with. I belive it was one third? And they were just brokers sending it to a trader who took his cut. I haven't checked into the credits anymore but I haven't heard anyone who's even talked about it in probably 6 months. Maybe everyone is signed up but me? No, I know that isn't true. And, I'm also thinking if "they" insist credits are worthwhile, the price will go up. The snake oil traders will get competitive and the admin costs and gouging will go down.

[redleaf]

The whole thing is a crock of ship! I have a neighbor who cultivates conventionally every year and yet he has all his acres,(95% rented land)signed up for carbon credits. The whole thing stinks.

[grrrr]

It's getting close to Christmas. I'm going to find a skinny kid to go on a diet for me so I can eat all I want over the holidays. Maybe I can talk others into my "calorie credit" scheme and I can make some money as a broker. Hmmm.

[frustrated1]

If the skinny kid dies because eating cash wasn't nourishing what happens? If you die of a heart attack can your family sue the kid? Again, more questions than answers but I like the analogy.

[frustrated1]

Sorry, I guess to be a proper analogy you just have to pay the kid. He just keeps on doing what he's doing, he doesn't have to diet.

[norton17]

We have been signed up with the same organization for a couple years and have yet to see a cheque.

Its a farce imo

[bucket]

When this first started - I asked why doesn't crop insurance handle it and put the money against premiums. They already know how you farm and have the records. In most cases they provide the records for the middle man who ****s the farmers.

[Jay-mo]

Farmers and society in general will be better off when this notion that carbon dioxide is causing global warming finally dies.

[burnt]

It will not die easily or quickly. There are too many big names that have too much invested in it to let it die the wretched death it so richly deserves.

Do you think the likes of algore are going to quietly fold up their show and go home? And he is just a front man for the whole farce.

Why do you think the leaked CRU files fiasco has not made one major headline in the West, and I do not mean Western Canada.

We are about to witness one of the biggest cover-up efforts of modern times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oOLT8ECko6g&NR=1