Flax - again!

[bucket]

So I am reading the WP and now they find triffid at the breeders stage of development?

The industry wants certified seed to correct the problem? Yeah, NOT to likely.

These organizations should really get their heads out of their asses and get a policy that farmers can live with prior to seeding. It makes no sense to plan to clean flax and then find out you have to buy certified dirty seed?

The obvious solution is to allow farmers to use their own seed that has a triffid free certificate. It will be just as reliable as the incompetent and immoral seed growers policy.

[charliep]

Just curious as to what process you would propose to ensure all farmer saved seed (brown bag if you prefer the term) is triffid free? Will leave the past alone but at least with certified seed, there is an audit trail in place and someone who can be held accountable. My experience is that most seed growers run good businesses and work hard to meet customers requirements.

Interesting math but a 25 % certified seed use means farmers renew their seed source every 4 years. It is quite likely there are farmers that are still using seed with parentage from 2001.

I have to ask again - is anyone talking about getting the genetic event around triffid registered in Europe?

[Burbert]

Don't ya'll go fergettin now, thats the way our friends and Moonsanta, spred the GMO's round to all the Kanolie seeds. Mix it together they'll buy it, no choice. Now that's markiteen!!!!

[checking]

Charlie,charlie,charlie, it isn't good enough that "most seed growers run good businesses."

Bucket was so right that at least one, if not several seed growers didn't have their triffid propagation turned in to be crushed. They just couldn't stand taking a loss on it. Why do you now expect me to reward a few seed growers who have caused us a whole lot of hurt? I'd rather trust the test that I am going to have to pay for on my farm stored flax than run the risk of dealing with a certified scum.

There is the so true statement that fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

[charliep]

I only comment you better know all your neighbors and hope they use clean common seed. The labs can test at the 0.01% level for triffid (in fact most things which should really scare you). The requirment for the EU is 0.1%. Puts to contamintion levels between 4 kg and 40 kg in "B" train or 500 kg to 5 tonnes in a 5,000 tonne bin in a high through put elevator.

[charliep]

Shouldn't put words in a fellow participants mouth but see the following quote from Larry Weber in Steinbach on line.

<a href="http://www.steinbachonline2.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15530&It emid=239">flax outlook</a>

[grrrr]

Do we know the seed growers are to blame? I seem to remember little plastic bags of GM flax handed out at a farm show way back. Maybe a spoonful each. They were given to anyone who stopped to look. That might explain the low contamination everywhere.

[bucket]

Charliep

Just curious as to what audit trail you are talking about?

If they can't find the source of the triffid mess when triffid was never to the commercial stage that so called audit trail is bullshit!!!!

To make comments to the effect that the audit trail will save the day is nonsense because to date no one has either said where it started, or who started it. But the facts do say that Triffid was released to seed growers and those same growers were to have swept out their bins. Obviously that didn't happen and neither did the audit trail a decade ago.

Besides read the WP the problem is currently at the breeder's stage which makes it more likely the problem should resolved with farmers using triffid free flax. And that maybe better found on the farm than at a seed growers.

[parsley]

&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;p class=&quot;EC_style8ptBK&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;[URL="http://parsleysnotebook.blogspot.com/2010/01/quarantine-fp967-cdc-triffid-flax-virus.html"](quarantine?)[/URL]&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[bucket]

Charliep

What process do proposed that says certified seed is triffid free?

The seed growers and their audit trail obviously CAN NOT be trusted.

If my seed from 08 that I used in 09 tests triffid free, and my sample from 09 test triffid free then I would say I have pretty clean seed. Thats a simple process compared to buying certified triffid infected seed at an allowable .01% infection.

[bucket]

Sorry let me try that again.

What process would you propose to ensure all certified seed is triffid free?

[shaney]

Having tested certified seed is really the only way to
solve this problem. For the person that mentioned
they should be able to use farm saved flax that was
tested has some issues.

1. Was the bin, auger, truck and machinery cleaned
out before you transported that common flax

2. Was the farm saved flax sample sent in a
representative sample.

Remember we are talking zero percent which
incredibly difficult to manage appropriately. Do not
let the extra cost of buying seed this year be the
reason we still have this problem next year.

[checking]

I don't know how it is with other producers that use farm saved seed, but we buy certified seed, produce that crop, and then save the entire crop for all future crop years. It only makes sense to us to have seed one generation away from certified. Don't be suggesting the requirement of certified every year as it puts into great question to me of the purity of the original certified seed that I paid a premium for to gain purity.

Therein lies a problem Charlie. Our elevator system of 5000 tonne bins is not suited for this new world of tolerances. That system can't be used, in this situation, to avoid the combining of neighbours' flax for a market like the EU. We require container sized farm pickups that get rid of the risk associated with high through put elevator combinations and neighbours. It's traceable to source. Now only if we can ever be assured that all registered seed growers won't cheat.

To throw a scare into this industry. I've just learned that locally 52 cars of flax were loaded under the new testing regime, and sent on their merry way through the high through put system. 18 cars were rejected at port with triffid contamination with the third test. What's the EU test going to find on the fourth try?

[bucket]

Shaney

All your questions are valid for the seed grower system as well.

The audit system that charlie talked about is bogus since the triffid has no source.

And maybe you haven't quite read the facts to date. So I will will repeat them.

1. Triffid was never to have been released for commercial growers. That means only seed growers had the seed.

2. Seed growers were to have swept out their bins and that seed was crushed in Manitoba. This was supposed to have happened close to a decade ago.

3. Triffid flax has shown up at the breeder stage of development. That means seed growers will have a certain amount of triffid present at all times. This means that the questions you asked earlier are not part of anyone's protocol for cleanliness.

Having stated the facts why would anyone trust certified seed from a seed grower when, in fact, they are the ones directly responsible for this mess.

[parsley]

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&lt;p class=&quot;EC_style8ptBK&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;[URL="http://www.canterra.com/home/introducing_canterra_seeds/board_of_directors/"](Will seed sales surge if bucket cannot use his own seed?)[/URL]&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;