Flax - again!

[shaney]

A couple things-

-I am not totally sure but I pretty sure the genie
will be quite difficult to put back in the bottle

-I am sure that this group is missing more than a
few facts on the issue. For one I have heard that at
the time little bags of the variety were given out to
people at farm shows.

-If there is infected breeder seed it is not the fault
of seed growers since the breeder is the one that
manages that level of multiplication

-I think it is quite irresponsible for Pars to suggest
that the people that were on the oilseed committee
at the time were some kind of bumbling fools. That
list is a list of highly respected people in the
industry

-I have no idea what being on the Canterra board
has to do with my ability to contribute on this site.
Yeah great research Pars, its a real secret that I am
a seedsman and have been in the business of
production, conditioning and retailing seed my
whole life. Its mentioned on my facebook page,
twitter page, blog, friendfeed and you tube channel.
Wow your the original matlock.

-Saying that when you buy certified seed you get
screwed is an ignorant comment that doesn't even
deserve a reply.

Its quite obvious that on agriville its very easy to
point fingers and say its "seed growers fault." I'm
not sure who is at fault but I know the industry is
working very hard to understand what happened
and correct it in the best way possible. And that
may take a variety of steps which is more than just
buying certified seed in 2010.

GM material of any crop type is the most highly
regulated and tested processes that we have in
agriculture across the full spectrum. Safety is not
an issue in this situation. Europe is and will
continue to be forced to reduce their barriers to
accepting GM because financially it will be forced
upon them by the people. It takes time though.

But keep doing what many of you do so well which
is point fingers and question the integrity of people
like me because I serve on a corporate board. I
have to go I have more intelligent conversations to
participant in on other areas of this site

good night.

[jensend]

shaney maybe it would serve you well in your capacities as director to consider whether or not mistakes have been made in the past and different courses should be followed in the future. this may very well be the first in a continuum of issues regarding genetics that are not accepted by some markets. i think producers at all levels will have to take responsibility for what they produce and traceability is coming like it or not. stomping off in a pout isn't addressing the issue.

[shaney]

I'm boy pouting whatsover.I have no reason to pout. I am all for Traceability and QMS. As I stated before I have a ISO 9000 facility. The industry is working to manage the situation in the best possible way.

[gregpet]

The "industry" is offloading all costs and responsibility for this mess onto producers. Why should I use certified (unpure) seed if my own tests show my seed is Triffid free?

[oneoff]

You nailed it "shaney".


"" The industry is working to manage the situation in the best possible way. ""

You don't consider the farmers beyond the regulators----breeder---seed grower---seed sales groups to have any say in this fiasco. The industry will fix this the way they desire with no input from the guys who are being hurt and ruined. Those guys are the real industry and you are only a marginal support group we should use as we see fit.
You know that your plan is very good financially for the same regulator/breeder/seed grower/seed sales group; and I assure you that it comes at the expense of ordinary farmers such as myself who will have to live under whatever fix you decide to put in place.
The past system failed miserably and I say you don't get another chance. This time farmers should take control of the seed supplies that are needed.
Just who ever told you that your group speaks for the industry. If we ever acquisce to mandatory certified seed we will truly be under the absolute control of the seed industry.

Looking after the agricultural industry will be shown to be far more important; and I think I have a right to have a say on those matters.
I hope the seed industry doesn't have a good night.

[oneoff]

ISO 9000 facilities?. That means international standards. Maybe real farmers need to see if the "industry" is capable of meeting any standard at all. As I've said before; respect and trust are earned; not unilaterally stated as facts.
If this seems too blunt; then maybe the `ìndustry``should have listened and reacted in times when the message was stated more calmly.

[parsley]

"A couple things- " lol

First of all, Shaney, you jumped in and talked up registered seed. You became fair game. Your job is to tend the bottom line of your corp, as well as present your opinion, and you did just that.

So did I.

Some people wouldnt know you wear two hats and that is why I pointed it out. You have a vested interest I do not have. Not good, Not bad. It is.

Fair enough?

Nothing wrong with being a director, nothing wrong with owning shares, and I encourage everyone to do so, but also expect people to question if bias could exist. It may or may not be present, but allow people to recognize it and question it. Nothing personal, so don't take it that way.

1.Shaney said, "-If there is infected breeder seed it is not the fault of seed growers since the breeder is the one that manages that level of multiplication"

Think that one through Shaney.

2. Shaney said, "-I think it is quite irresponsible for Pars to suggest that the people that were on the oilseed committee at the time were some kind of bumbling fools."

I simply linked to the page. On my blog, I described them thus:
<p></p>
<p class="EC_style8ptBK"><strong><a href="http://parsleysnotebook.blogspot.com/2010/01/fp967-triffid-flax-under-purview-of.html">(Committee?)</a></strong></p>

I don't think I was unfair, this is my description:

quote"From the time FP967 CDC Triffid Flax, also known as the Triffid Kid was first conceived, then skirted around as a toddler, and finally grew up as the economic terrorist from hell, an extended family was there to deliver him, and nurture him, albeit in recent times, to seemingly disown him. Because Triffid flax fitted under the category of Oilseed, each updated oilseed committee (with revolving participants of course), would be kept well versed about the progress of Triffid's development and potential.

Below is a typical profile of the agricultural players positioned on the Oilseeds Subcommittee during the stageTriffid was toddling his way towards riches."unquote

Perhaps you presumed the reference to the 'senator' derogatory? LOL

Don't be surprised or indignant at criticism. At least you won't get emails like the typical one I just opened, and I won't quote all of it, or I'll get kicked off AV:

"Pars: Read your Triffid posts. A bunch of incompetant self absorbed ass kissers. I know some of these characters. Been doing the same thing for years."

Listen to farmers. Write down the main points they make, and look at them in the light of dawn. Compare it to the principles you would like applied to your own company.

And then you can understnad the following:

1. Downloading the cost of mistakes on the people who didn't make them is a no no.

2. A monopoply on seed grain should never ever ever be considered.

3. Inform growers. They pay up to their yingying. Most websites we pay for are not updated, to let farmers know what is going on. As well, producers "in the loop" are accustomed to hoarding their information, probably believing their pair of gene storage centers will be somewhat larger come morning.

Any flax grower who sits on either an appointed or elected chair that has not yet taken the time to post the following on Agriville, is not interested in communicating with farmers:

NOTICE OF CONFERENCE CALL
February 1, 2010 1:00 p.m.
February 2, 2010 1:00pm

Join in on a free Triffid conference call.

1. Call 1-800-610-9767
2. Inform the operator you wish to participate in the "Flax Industry Update Call."

3. Everyone welcome.

4. Participants: Flax Council of Canada, seed testing labs, Sask Ag, and Viterra

You will have the opportunity to ask questions.


Parsley

[parsley]

Shaney,

I also want to say thank you for coming online and replying. I admire that. Both you and Jeff Neilsen face the unknown,not the best feeling, but your accessibilty will serve you and your company well in the long run. Parsley

[parsley]

Gregpet makes an economic point all of us should read twice:

"Why should I use certified (unpure) seed if my own tests show my seed is Triffid free?"
'
Not a real dumb boy here some mamma raised. LOL Pars

[dmlfarmer]

Just because a sample you submit of your bin run flax comes back as Triffid free does not guarantee the crop produced will be 100% Triffid free. Nor does planting certified seed which has been tested and found to be Triffid free. Most growers use clean seed and have never planted weed seeds, yet they still have weeds. Triffid is in the soil seed bank and the enviornment and as I said before, it is impossible now to 100% eradicate it, just as it is with any weed. (And remember, many of our weed problems were introduced by our forefathers. They were brought over in unclean seed, or even as flowers for the pioneer's gardens.)
Furthermore, while volunteer flax is not a major problem, it is common enough to be named on the label of a number of herbicides as being controlled ie Altitude, Attain, glyphosate products.
Unless seed growers are willing to guarantee your production from planting their certified seed will be 100% Triffid free (the seed grower will buy your entire production at Triffid free prices if even a trace of Triffid is found plus pay a costs and a penalty) they have no business forcing growers to buy and plant certified seed.

[oneoff]

And further to dmlfarmer's post.
It is hypocritical for the seed industry to propose and/or support the certified seed solution that they are attempting to force on regular farmers.
The admission that Triffid is even contaminating breeders seed is a call for the seed industry to clean up its own act before they have any right to even comment on other sectors problem. After that happens; I'll decide if I personally want the seed industry to speak on my behalf.

As gregpet correctly stated "Why should I use certified (unpure) seed if my own tests show my seed is Triffid free?"
When the people who have been in control find out that "just because sosmething can be done; doesn't mean that it should be done" we will be one step further to making less irrepairable mistakes.
To those people responsible for past mistakes; I say if you continue to be in charge; you must look for additional input because obviously you have totally screwed up, and need an attitude change.

[cottonpicken]

Cant we just figure out how to punish these people?

Can we get Merchant to hand out a class action whoop
ass?

[dmlfarmer]

While it would be great for growers to be able to sue to recover the losses incurred, the problem is we really do not know if anyone did anything illegal. Afterall, the CFIA approved Triffid for unconfined release in 1998 and it was not until 2001 until the variety was deregistered. Seed growers had every right to multiply this seed for 3 years. And it is important to realize that growers wanted this new variety to help deal with herbicide residues in the soil that were a problem for flax in a rotation. Breeders and seed growers were working to provide a variety with a trait growers wanted.

We have no proof at this time any seed grower sold this seed after 2001. Is it not possible that the very low level of contamination that has been found is entirely due to volunteer growth of Triffid on fields where it was legally grown from 98-01 and the outcrossing of the trait from those volunteers into conventional registered varieties?

What we do now know for sure is:
-once there is unconfined release of any crop, variety, or trait into the enviornment it is impossible to 100% eradicate or control.
-100% segregation of a new variety or trait is impossible to accomplish
-it is not the producer who determines if a variety or trait is acceptable, it is the buyer that sets the rules.

And until every grower understands and respects these three facts, we will see this same problem repeated again with other crops, varieties and traits. And the people really to blame are not the seed growers and breeders but in fact are the growers who are demanding the new traits to begin with.

[charliep]

I'll add on to your list.

All Canada's competitors use bio tech/non traditional breeding techniques
- even Europe. The place where there is some of form of disagreement is
genetic engineering. Not going to bring up here but will raise the
question over time as to what Canada's biotech policy should be. If
biotech is not part of our breeding, will our competitive position be
eroded? Lots of questions will come out of this.

The importance of getting genetic events registered in importing
countries. Someone will correct but a decisions was never rendered in
Europe on Triffid. The application was in the system but the variety was
pulled in Canada before a final decision was made and no more was done
for the reasons you stated. If this variety were introduce to EU regulators
today, it would likely be approved on the European Food Safety Agency
side - the political process may result in a different outcome.

A final factor is at least some agreement on an international rules around
the introduction of bio tech crops including genetically engineered ones.
CFIA has plant with novel trait rules. Europe has the European food Safety
Agency. US and Australia have their processes. Importers have their
processes. All these regulatory agencies should work together to have the
basics of what is needed to have a biotech bred crop approved based on
science. If some country wants to add other factors, fair enough but the
basics of science should at least be outlined.

[charliep]

I might also add from the last comment that growers are not the only
ones asking for new traits. On the consumer side, I note the
introduction of specialty oil canola has met consumer needs around
trans fats in their diets (trait introduced by traditional breeding I know).
More of this will happen in the future.

Even if grower traits, there are still needs for plant breeding and having
tools available to improve. Disease resistance. Improved nitrogen use.
Drought tolerance. Salinity tolerance. Improved hardiness in winter
crops. question then comes to what tools/techniques should be
available to plant breeders.