flax conference call

[terralex]

Producers need certified seed to sell into the EU market.

If you want to plant your farm saved seed your markets will be limited for the next year.

Personally I have already booked in my seed requirements for the upcoming year.

Some of the questions being asked sounded like farmers being cheap and this is an expensive issue. (Throwing leak stop in your rad is a short term fix for a blown head gasket.)

The Viterra guy didn't hear the question asked about farm saved treated seed. It almost sounded like Viterra would buy it. The flax council hadn't even considered this issue.

[terralex]

Bill has my vote for the best (and most approriate) rant of the phone call.

Why hasn't any of the CDC, CFIA or whoever is responsible for the getting rid of Triffid 10 years ago thought about owning up to the issue.

Someone is afraid (rightly so) of a lawsuit from all flax growers.

[cottonpicken]

Looks like t4 has a place for his certfied nobody called for.

[parsley]

"Why hasn't any of the CDC, CFIA or whoever is responsible for the getting rid of Triffid 10 years ago thought about owning up to the issue. "

Ah. Now, we're getting to the krux of the problem. The MInISTER approves every new variety registered, does he not?

I was hoping a farmer or two would get mad enough to ask the question

You see, a regulatory system must be sound from the getgo, and as far as I can see, the CGC and the CFIA were about as good at setting up regulatory standards, and enforcing them, as would be identically twinned amoeba.

And I think the convential farmer and the seed growers, both, have been downloaded with regulatory financial responsibility.

And wherever the gavel presently stops, albeit conventional or seedgrower level, the gulldarn gavel bangs a farmers' head.

If that is going to continue to be the norm, why have Minister approve the variety?

Time seedgrowers took a hard nosed responsible leadership role.

Although farmers may dislike public discussion now, it pales with a massive worldwide class action down the road, just waiting to happen.
Pars

[terralex]

It's too late for today's call, but no one asked the question about having a positive test for Triffid.

If the flax in you bin tests positive for triffid, how long should you refrain from growing flax in your rotation to ensure that there are no volunteer issues.

[terralex]

Another comment that comes to mind is that they were so successful in getting rid of triffid the last time, are they doing anything extra this time to ensure that Mons and Normandy will be completely iradicated.

[TOM4CWB]

terralex....

Perhaps you didn't listen carefully enough....

They said Trace levels are found everywhere....

Since flax breeder seed was found contaminated in Normandy and Mong.... now... what about the other flax varieties that were released from CDC since 1998?

[parsley]

Which Bill?

[oneoff]

I couldn't catch today's conference call; but intend to listen in tomorrow. I'm repeatinghat I've been told by someone who listened in. Too bad someone hasn't reported it first hand.
Apparently my information from "Ameriflax" late last week was wrong and there were indeed many questions asked. I am told that the flax producers weren't completely happy today (to say the least). I also understand that of 2500 tests to date there is widespread low level contamination; and that the high end of only 0.1 Triffid is only found in a very few samples. It sounds like the concensus is that expectations are for a long drawn out campaign to cleanse the seed supply. What I know first hand is what I wrote two weeks ago. Other than my statement that contamination levels have exploded; it now appears I should have said that contamination is nearly everywhere and in commercial, pedigreed and breeders seed at what could be called only very low to extremely low levels. Otherwise I stand with my previously published view from a couple of weeks ago. It is reprinted below :

"Effectively giving the seed supply market solely to the registered seed growers is a concern that is a big loss to farming practice options for commercial grain farmers. Mandatory certified seed planting for evermore is a big gain for registered and certified seed growers.
I have yet to hear from any seed grower or their associations that they recognize and agree with that analysis.
Until the seed industry can bring themselves to acknowledge this point; you are missing the conflict of interest(or at least a possible perceived conflict of interest) you have in promoting this new change in farming practice.
Evidently the Triffid issue is not your financial problem. It is the financial problem of farmers such as myself. As such I should have much influence on the decision; and the seed industy should have little input. I am not and have not given you any authority to speak on my behalf. There have been alternatives suggested and not any response from the industry as to why it would not be equally as effective.
Apparently the seed industry has no idea as to how this disaster developed. Well apparently only a few dozen growers had acces to Triffid. Don't go blaming packets of 15 seeds unless you know some pertinent facts that could explain how it could have exploded to the contamination levels apparently detected. The seed industry failed commercial farmers on the Triffid contamination. You have taken absolutely no responsibility; and are only feigning hurt and anger.

There are thousands of farmers who are and will really be hurt; and none of them will be from the seed industry."

Oh yes... And expect certified flaxseed to double in price. There is a scarcity you know. But it only one of addditional ongoing costs to bear. Still no one taking responsibility for this mess.
However I do detect that a few now see how somebody could get sued over meses like these. On that matter I think the "Ameriflax" spokeperson will be proven right.

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff;



"There are thousands of farmers who are and will really be hurt; and none of them will be from the seed industry."

How can you possibly put this position forward... when the seed industry has every bit as much at stake as Commercial farmers?

I am expected to test my flax before cleaning.... COST. If even a 'trace' level of the presence of FP967 (CDC Triffid)... seed growers are asked to dispose of the seed. One positive test... on a 10t lot of seed... which we are now asked to have our sample tested by doing 4 60gram samples (approx. 10,000 seeds per 60 grams). If any one of these 4 tested samples comes back with even a 'trace' level of the FP967 event... we are being asked to do the same as commercial flax growers. Dump this seed.

The fact that Quantum has reported 'trace' levels in the many tests done... and other accredited labs are reporting simular results... can only logically mean one thing?

Are there many 'false' positives being created?

Why would the industry be telling farmers to dump commercial farmsaved seed that was negative to trace levels of the FP967 event... when they could be the seed that has the best probability of being contaminated the least?

How can anyone predict with scientific accuracy... what any seed history is... when there will be a question:

1. Did the seed conditioner completely clean out the seed plant 100% of the time on each of these commercial lots of seed... between cleaning each lot?

2. The same question must be asked of the seed conditioner for the pedigreed seed industry... was it 100% each time another lot was cleaned?

3. How could the presence of FP967 (CDC Triffid) be at background levels in the many samples tested... unless breeder seed was contaminated?

4. The CGC says that testing 240 grams (40,000 seeds) is a detection level of .01. How can this be? If I test my Select lot of seed... that comes from my plot... we are asked to send in a 2.5KG sample of a 1.25T lot... and have the 240 grams double tested (Two PCR analyses will be carried out for each DNA extraction...as per protocol)... how does this remotely compare with the CGC testing a cargo of 6,000t?

How many times is the CGC allowed to retest... to get the negative result needed... to certify the EU shipment... (I am told the EU will not challenge but automatically accept the CGC testing)?

Seed Growers are just as likely to be hurt... as Commercial growers. NO ONE wins... there needs to be a protocol to approve these events in all markets... BEFORE release into our CDN environment.

Like the old saying goes... you can't be half pregnant!

We are all in this together!

[gregpet]

Seed growers get to charge whatever the market will bear since there will be a short supply. Who bears that cost T4? Might make up for any dumped certified seed by charging more for the 'good' seed.

So I still see the primary producer bearing all the costs since any certified seed dumped by the seed grower will be made up by charging the farmers more for the available seed.

[oneoff]

Its as simple as gregpet says. Nuff said on the points he makes.

As for t4's comment "3. How could the presence of FP967 (CDC Triffid) be at background levels in the many samples tested... unless breeder seed was contaminated? "
If anyone thinks they can do anything about "background levels" they may be attacking something that we just have to live with. That insinuates the battle of eradication is already lost.
When seed growers dump their excess supplies they are at their lowest option level. That is a commercial farmers best option for their highest return. If seed growers want to help out they will not take advantage of short seed supplies and thus raise their prices to what the market will bear. We'll see how this plays out, but right now; in my books seed growers are on the same page as Viterra, the Flax Council and European customers.

[terralex]

T4... I did listen closely to what was said. Obviously someone didn't pay enough attention to getting rid of all the Triffid. I am hoping they are going to do a better job ensuring that Mons and Normandy are taken off the market completely.

Pars... Bill during the phone call was the first one to talk about hitting back financially. Sometimes lawyers are a good thing.

[terralex]

Just a different thought on the whole issue.

What if this is just a natural mutation.

If my understanding is correct Triffid was resistant to a Group 2 herbicide. There is no shortage of info on Group 2 resistant Kochia. Clearfield Lentils are a result of a mutation in the lentil plant that makes if resistant to a Group 2 herbicide.

What if nature is just trying to make it's own version of Triffid.

[charliep]

Did anyone ask about getting the triffid genetic event registered
in Europe? If the genetic were registered, then it could considered
under the GE corn events in soybeans.

Only other, do the current tests for the triffid genetic event occur
at the gene marker level or are they testing for the actual genetic
material. The marker is based on genetic material from a bacteria
which occurs in nature. I have also heard comments both ways as
to whether the marker was used in canola. My understanding
(others have understood different) is the marker was used in
earlier canola varieties (not used today).