GM triffid Flax and Pedigreed Seed

[TOM4CWB]

Dear Agriville Participants;

Please stop blaming the Pedigreed Seed system for causing the low level background contamination of flax in western Canada.

The Pedigreed seed system... was never designed... and cannot be used... to guarantee 100% triffid GM event free pedigreed seed below .1% purity... and especially below .01%.

The Flax Council of Canada... has missed the boat by recommended testing with 1 60 gram sample for the triffid GM event... as this does not give .01% results 95% of the time. Flax growers who did do this test... and got NEGATIVE... now MUST do the 4 60 gram test for the triffid GM event... to get accurate results that 95% of the time are scientifically valid.

I truly hope you all realize that present industry protocol is developing... and will change further in the next month... as proper testing and the results from the valid tests become known.

Have a good day!

[bucket]

Dear Tom

If you could please explain how triffid was allowed to enter the commercial system without the pedigree seed system, I would quit blaming your industry.

The facts are that triffid was only released to seed growers, who, were to have cleaned out their bins and crushed all of it domestically. In keeping with the audit trail that charliep thinks is so wonderful, the seed growers should have OVER THE LAST DECADE reported who they sold their supplies to so that seed would have been disposed of.

Then we wouldn't be in the mess we are in.

And by the way, flax seed prices are going through the roof. Just curious how much the pedigree seed industry would like to contribute to the cause other than fattenning up their wallets.

[bucket]

I hate to be too harsh about this T4 but unfortunately you are guilty by association and it sucks.

But commercial growers have had the same fate thrown on them. All have to pay for something they didn't create. We are all guilty whether we like it or not.

[wd9]

Given the use of foundation seed for seed growers, triffid should decrease. The increase would only occur if progeny were grown on fields over and over again that had triffid grown on previously. This is not rocket science but is rather the assumption that 'they could get away with it'. Bucket, you are right, the seed industry caused the problem, 100 percent, but everyone is in it.

Another solution is realistic tolerance on exports. Just because a long term flax grower uses certified seed there is no guarantee triffid inclusion won't occur. This problem may never go away.

[bucket]

It may never go away BUT how does anyone know if they have reached the lowest level possible.

There have been no benchmarks set and no one has tested flax from years gone by. The industry may be on its last leg of flushing triffid out but no one has quantifiable evidence of that.

This is where the flax council and the seed industry let commercial growers down. No one accepted the responsibility of cleaning the mess up over the last decade, commercial growers are left with the clean up costs.

The CFIA knew they should not have let this variety be registered but did it anyway and they accept no responsibilty.

The seed growers know who grew it and know what happened to their stocks, they accepted no responsibilty through their so called audit system(which is obviously flawed beyond repair).

The flax council just plain ignored the problem as big Barry Hall said "... we thought that was the end of it ..." referring to when they figured all seed growers were honest and sent their supplies to a domestic crusher.

And meanwhile most growers who wouldn't have bought triffid flax because of the roation problems it would of created were left out of the loop and are now forced to pay for the cleanup.

If anyone involved with triffid would have just just done the honest thing over a decade ago instead of lining his pockets this mess would not be here today.

For perspective:

If the persons responsible would have taken the small 10000 dollar loss on their triffid flax a decade ago the industry would not be losing millions today.

If the flax council would have continued monitoring all the triffid stocks over the last decade we might not have this problem.

If the seed growers would have reported all stocks we would not have this problem.

None of that happened. So now everyone else pays dearly to buy their golden ticket into the flax game.

[bucket]

It may never go away BUT how does anyone know if they have reached the lowest level possible.

There have been no benchmarks set and no one has tested flax from years gone by. The industry may be on its last leg of flushing triffid out but no one has quantifiable evidence of that.

This is where the flax council and the seed industry let commercial growers down. No one accepted the responsibility of cleaning the mess up over the last decade, commercial growers are left with the clean up costs.

The CFIA knew they should not have let this variety be registered but did it anyway and they accept no responsibilty.

The seed growers know who grew it and know what happened to their stocks, they accepted no responsibilty through their so called audit system(which is obviously flawed beyond repair).

The flax council just plain ignored the problem as big Barry Hall said "... we thought that was the end of it ..." referring to when they figured all seed growers were honest and sent their supplies to a domestic crusher.

And meanwhile most growers who wouldn't have bought triffid flax because of the roation problems it would of created were left out of the loop and are now forced to pay for the cleanup.

If anyone involved with triffid would have just just done the honest thing over a decade ago instead of lining his pockets this mess would not be here today.

For perspective:

If the persons responsible would have taken the small 10000 dollar loss on their triffid flax a decade ago the industry would not be losing millions today.

If the flax council would have continued monitoring all the triffid stocks over the last decade we might not have this problem.

If the seed growers would have reported all stocks we would not have this problem.

None of that happened. So now everyone else pays dearly to buy their golden ticket into the flax game.

[bucket]

Did not mean to double post.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket and WD9,

Did you forget that CDC Saskatoon admitted publicly before Christmas that 2 different lots/Varieties of BREEDER seed had the triffid GM event in them?

What does that tell you, other than this pedigreed system has a very long way to go to 'flush' the GM event out...

In fact it could be argued that because the GM event is Herb class 2 resistant.. pheonoxies don't kill it... that we will select for the GM event in the future... NOT reduce it in the environment.

The pedigreed system is required to have Varietal purity to less than .1%... which is 10 times more than .01% the industry is calling on commercial growers to be under... and an unrealistic expectation that seed growers dump anything that has a 'false positive' background... or trace level that is less than the certifiable scientific accuracy of the testing proceedures now in place.

Pedigreed seed growers... are being 'voluntarily' asked to be kind and release the test information to the trade! What are the chances of that happening?

We are all fools if we believe this GM problem is being dealt with... in a manner... that eliminates this triffid GM event from western Canada...

I will say it again... a pedigreed seed lot has no better chance of being 'pure' that farm saved seed... for the triffid GM event... if they are cleaned, sampled and tested the same way.

Because everyone knows who I am... I will pay a price for being honest. I have encouraged the CSGA to make these same statements... have had NO one disagree with what I have indicated here with top management... Liability issues will force their hand to agree with my indications of the facts on the GM event. They will all be open to legal actions... if they do not come clean.

[Burbert]

I think we should blame the commercial grain growers, after all that is just another name for, DUMB FARMERS. It's their fault. Pedigreed Seed growers it seems are the best of the worst and we should just be happy these boys/girls exist, cause they never ever ever ever have or will make any mistakes, cause they ain't humans. Taada that's it they's rogues and mavericks after all is said and done......

[TOM4CWB]

Burbert...

Next to saying "I am not in jail yet' as most consversations begin with me 'But what do I know...I am just a dumb farmer' ends them!

At least I am predictable!

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket:

"If you could please explain how triffid was allowed to enter the commercial system without the pedigree seed system"

As I have said time after time... the pedigreed system has no ability to deal with background traces levels of varietal impurities under .1%.

How can anyone blame pedigreed seed growers...

For growing pedigreed seed they had no knowledge there was any problem with... and no moral or ethical indication or technical reason to know they were doing anything wrong?

The exact same issues are 'in play' for 'farmsaved seed'.

If I believe:

1a) Do unto others as you would have done unto you,
b) Do not do unto others as you would not have others do unto you;
2a) Do not infringe upon the Rights, Freedoms or Property of others, and
b) Keep all contracts willingly, knowingly and intentionally.
3a) That for every wrong there is a remedy,
b) The end does not justify the means,
c) Fundamental principals cannot be set aside to meet the demands of convenience or to prevent apparent hardship in a particular case,
d) Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law,
e) Two wrongs do not make a right, and
f) One can enlarge the rights of the people; however they cannot be taken away without their informed consent.


I will do what I am doing on Agriville.

I do believe there will be a day of judgement... and liars will pay. How many others... believe the same in business today?

[bucket]

Tom

Because I am a dumb farmer, could you explain the path of seed?

The breeder seed goes where - directly to commercial farmers or to seed growers?

Where does foundation or certified seed come from?

I won't dispute that the breeders didn't have a hand in this but if the audit trail is followed somehow the certified seed growers are a part of it as well.

The one thing I do know and it is very important:

Triffid flax was not developed by comercial flax growers - the seed came from somewhere. Unless by using certain chemicals flax built its own resistance but I haven't heard that theory yet.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket:

Here are the stages of Pedigreed seed:

1. Breeder Seed: released by the plant breeder; The Progeny of a variety of Breeder seed: next generation is; Select seed.

2. Select seed: Up to 5 generations of Select pedigreed seed can be reproduced from the original Breeder seed lot the Pedigreed Seed grower gets from the Plant Breeder of the variety being grown (ie; CDC Saskatoon being a breeder farm).

3. Foundation pedigreed seed is the progeny of Select (or possibly breeder) pedigreed seed.

4. Registered pedigreed seed is the progeny of normally Foundation pedigreed seed.

5. Certified pedigreed seed is normally the progeny of Registered pedigreed seed; the last multiplication normally in the pedigreed system.

Pedigreed seed can be demoted to Certified seed at any point; if the seed grower is allowed to release the variety to commercial growers.

Now often the Pedigreed seed will be 'demoted from select to "foundation" after one year... as 2.5 acres [1HA] (the size of a select plot) only requires 3 bu for the next select plot... meaning that on flax a 40bu/ac crop nets 100bu from the select plot.

I am a 'Select pedigreed seed grower' by CSGA regulations. After certification involving 3 years of probationary growing of Pedigreed select seed (and proof of varietal purity being maintained), a Pedigreed seed grower becomes a 'Pedigreed Select Seed Grower'.

There are many rules on isolation between pedigreed seed fields, break rotational crops between production of different kinds and varieties of seed.

Have a look at CSGA seed.ca for rules, mostly in circular 6 of the regulations.

Each year each field of pedigreed seed is inspected for purity and weed problems at the pedigreed seed growers cost.

Select plots have plot charges. Breeder seed often costs over $140/ 15kg bag... as an example. Low plant populations are normal on the first Select plot after breeder seed is planted.

Select plots have samples submitted each year and analyzed for purity. Spot checks are done on Foundation Pedigreed varietal purity. Authorized Conditioners are required for resale of Pedigreed seed, with sample and inspection of these establishments and a whole set of protocols for conditioning of pedigreed seed.

Hope this gives you a brief overview to how the CSGA system works.

[parsley]

Who owned Triffid seed? Who sold Triffid seed?

As with most new eligible varieties in Canada, once the Canadian Food Inspection Agency approved a new genetically modified variety for registration and issued the certificate in the name of the ag minister, "CDC FP967 Triffid" seed could then be purchased.

Triffid was approved first, by the registration committee in 1994: thus, tenders were put out so that seed marketing companies were provided with the opportunity to buy Baby Triffid seed. However, the final "Decision Document 98-24" approval from CFIA was not officially stamped and issued until May, 1996.

According to the man who fathered Triffid, and who should know, and who documented the details in his book called "Pandora's picnic basket : the potential and hazards of genetically modified foods", Alan McHughen shares the following:

"Triffid had several bidders, including one of the largest seed companies and some of the smallest.

An 'arm's length" committee considered the bids and eventually awarded the marketing rights to Value Added Seeds, Inc. (VAS), a small local seed company operated by a group of co-operative farmers. In addition to buying the rights to market the variety, they also bought the actual seed." (italics and bold added)

That's clear.

Considering that two Value Added Seeds Inc. representatives, Bill Hetland, and Shane Johnson, sat on the Oilseeds Committee, both they men and reliably update their peers sitting on the Oilseeds Committee, with first hand information on the progress of the very first genetically modified flax in the world.

McHughen ironically writes:

"VAS arranged for their farmers to grow a seed increase of Triffid for the summer of 1994, blissfully unaware of the difficulties that lay ahead."

[parsley]