GM triffid Flax and Pedigreed Seed

[parsley]

tom4cwb
Seedgrowers have <a href="http://www.seedgrowers.ca/about_us/objectives.asp?lang=e">responsibility </a>

Could Triffid seed have been sold/released to a group of kindergarten students? Only a group of seedgrowers, am I correct? If not, what's the point of even having seedgrowers if a variety is released to my very clever cat.

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

Value Added seeds was wound down some time ago; it became Farm Pure. That to is now gone in the last year with a little help from our friends in winter-peg.

Many many farmers and seed growers lost megabucks... all through this 'ordeal'...

To speculate there was a scheme by them... to rip off farmers... does not compute.

[parsley]

Again, you miss the point.

With that protocol in place, it will be prudent for Viterra and JRI and Canterra et al, to buy varieities under a "company name",gobble up the royalties, and if tanything goes amiss, changge the company names, and leave the conventional farmer to pay for environmental problems, gene insertion causing health problems, etc.

"Let bucket pay. He's too stupid too know better." chortle chortle.

You think?

My point is...somebody bought the variety. With ownership comes responsibilities. Pars
W

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

You miss the point.

They gave up on triffid... cause the gm event did not make anyone money... and only really benefited commercial growers. Group 2 resistance increased production on land with carry over chemical issues... but was not even designed to have the chemistry directly applied to the GM flax crop.

I simply perceive you are looking up a tree... that will not, and did not... make any one any money... even if they had a 'grand scheme' thought out!

As for organic flax growers... get pure seed, grow it, with a 35m isolation it is next to impossible for flax to outcross to other flax crops.

Flax is not Canola on the pollination side because the window is so short!

[bucket]

It did not make anyone money? Really Tom, for the next two years the seed growers are going to make a fortune selling flax seed!

Basically a ticket to buy to play the flax game. No audits. The flax council isn't coming to my farm next year to see what I grew. I bought new flax seed so I could sell what I have left. The yield will be astronomical. All because I bought certified seed. Did I plant it? Who knows and who cares, as long as I paid the ticket price, I can go to the game.

I might buy 30 bushels of certified seed for testing purposes only. Then I won't have a triffid problem.

See the problem with the solution, yet?

And does anyone see who is part of the problem?

There seems to be alot of steps between breeder seed and the commercial grower. The problem, as tom pointed out, if the problem starts at the breeder seed, then the problem amplifies throughout the seed growers.

Finally as it comes to the commercial farm they have the problem and for whatever reason, its the producer's fault and he gets to clean it up. Not the seed growers, not the breeders of mons or normandy, not the flax council.

The average producer who is now getting a discount for his flax, gets to pay to fix the problem.

Meanwhile the seed growers thicken their wallets.

Am I correct Tom??

[bucket]

Parsley

For future reference I would prefer to be called an "idiotsavant". It sounds more sophisticated.

[parsley]

So...when you are a seed grower, you only retain ownership if you make money?

Interesting.

At what point exactly, does a seed grower 'release' his patent ownership?

For example, were a few rogue seed growers "brown bagging Triffid, and if they were, did the "owners" implement enforcement? Just theoretical, of course, tom4cwb.

And exactly how does a seed grower "own" and then all of a sudden, "not own"?

What's the dollar figure?

I'm afraid both buckeet and I in the same category of stupid.



And if so, at what point does a seed grower give u

[parsley]

"up ownership"
sorry the last part was left off
-----------------------------
Property rights are not an organic-conventional issue, not a gender issue, nor a religious issue, tom.Not gonna chase that car.

Property rights includes ownership rights AND responsibilities.

That is the issue.

Yes, well, we all argue with trees:

Bert:"Whaddya ya mean you didn't make money? You catered to 100 people at my son's wedding. Ninety got sick and 2 died. YOu have to take responsibility for your meals."

Lulabelle: "No I don't. I decided at midnight I wasn't making any money, so somebody else can pay, I'm not responsible for my dinners. Your family is. They ate em."

Yes, well, sigh. pars

[parsley]

"the gm event did not make anyone money... and only really benefited commercial growers"

bucket, this says it all Pars

[Hopperbin]

Tom you said this,
"As I have said time after time... the pedigreed system has no ability to deal with background traces levels of varietal impurities under .1%. "

So why are we going with this system?
Vittera ceo believes so strongly that selling the farmers certified and all the inputs will produce good low gm seed. But your saying no guarantees.
Shouldn't you seed growers clean out your combines or at least only grow one variety instead of 5. Or wait more years before growing a different variety on the same field? What ever happened to sumerfallow anyway, that was a good way to increase purity.

[parsley]

Don't forget this boys:
tom4cwb is on the firing line here, and HE is the guy who didn't grow Triffid.

The rest watch him hang out on the line.

It tells you Tom is visible and accountable and he'll answer his phone when you call. Remember that when you buy seed. Pars

[TOM4CWB]

Hopperbin,

The CFIA did a big round of checks last fall for varietal purities... and we are told all varieties tested came back under .1% triffid GM event.

This IS the international standard for varietal purity in pedigreed seed not something CFIA or CSGA dreamt up.

Now there is other issues in flax that are important... like advances in oil quality in newer varieties... better yields... things both commercial growers and end users in the EU could benefit from. That is why in general... the stewardship program is not a bad idea... but does make some sense. Thia is of course totally outside the triffid GM event problem.

I would be surprised if flax breeders of other varieties that do not originate with the breeder farm who developed triffid; have a purity problem with their breeder seed.

Only time and testing will tell what that situation is.

If Viterra wants their own variety of flax to export... that is their option.

THERE is no monopoly on flax exports... certainly Viterra does not own the industry.

If there is gobs of money to be made... test your flax... if it is clean you will have many opportunities with it! If your farm was clean before... it will very likely be so now! Buy seed; buy that seed and tell the grower you are going to have your own test done... and do a test BEFORE you plant it!

If it is not zero... do not plant it!

You will need to start soon... to have it ready to go in the ground... but 2 weeks can easily get an ISO certified lab to do the test... that the EU Uses in the US to ship zero triffid GM event.

Phone Viterra... and see if they will guarantee zero triffid certified seed stocks! Take a sample as your truck is loaded... that the seed seller supervises and agrees to. Have it split 3 ways, one to test, one for you the buyer, and one for the seller to keep.

If it were me; I would demand the pedigreed seed be in a sealed mini bulks... or 25kg bags so the seed seller can not complain if it tests positive and you need to bring the pedigreed flax seed back because it didn't test zero for triffid.

All these safety measures cost time and money... again start early and plan ahead!

Happy flax growing in 2010... it could truly be a great year with all the uncertainty! The acres going in the ground are very likely to be less!!!

[oneoff]

You guys are missing the point that nothing tests zero. There is no test for anything that is that accurate. What a current "negative" Triffid tests do is say there isn't more than 0.1% or (0.01% for the "4 panel" test, I gather) most of the time (probably about 95% of the time.
Any grower, or seed salesman or seed grower who tells you a sample is Triffid free is a damn fool; naive, stupid; or just doesn't understand the tests that are currently being done.
I've said that in a nice way too many times already.
Absolutely NO ONE KNOWS IF ANY SAMPLE IS ABSOLUTELY TRIFFID FREE. There is NO test for that available.

[oneoff]

Here's a part of a news report from this morning. Some more unnamed guys talking about stomping it out. History will record whether they have any idea about what they are talking about. Ever notice that now this theory is accepted; and not even able to be traced back to an individual who should be responsible for the quote.


"Since the discovery of GM contamination in Canadian flax shipments to EU, trade between Canada and its largest flax buyer has been heavily restricted. To help stamp out the Triffid problem once and for all, growers are being asked to follow an industry requirement that all 2010-crop flax earmarked for export to the EU be planted with certified seed only."

[wmoebis]

Could someone talk about how buying and seeding certified seed from the same buissness that sold the problem in the first place will certify that it will not be contaminated again?

Shouldn't the public be made awhare of who these seed growers are so that we can decide if we want to deal with them?

Is this how the affidavit we sign when selling our wheat is going to work? If so aren't we sticking our necks out even if we seed wheat bought from all seed growers? Not everyone can tell contamination of mixed classes in wheat.

I don't like where this whole thing is going. Time to close the trap door on these long underware.