Lobbyists

[parsley]

Do you think a constant gaggle of ex-government employee lobbyists [URL="https://ocl-cal.gc.ca/app/secure/orl/lrrs/do/_ls70_ls75_ls62_ls6c_ls69_ls63_ls53_ls75_ls6d_ls6d _ls61_ls72_ls79?_ls6c_ls61_ls6e_ls67_ls75_ls61_ls6 7_ls65=_ls65_ls6e_ls5f_ls43_ls41&_ls72_ls65_ls67_l s44_ls65_ls63=592597&_ls73_ls65_ls61_ls72_ls63_ls6 8_ls50_ls61_ls67_ls65=publicBasicSearch&_ls73_ls4d _ls64_ls4b_ls79=1265472698174&_STRTG3=tr"]is actually a sound business practice for pulse farmers over the long run? [/URL]

[parsley]

Type in the word [URL="https://ocl-cal.gc.ca/app/secure/orl/lrrs/do/_ls70_ls75_ls62_ls6c_ls69_ls63_ls42_ls61_ls73_ls69 _ls63_ls53_ls65_ls61_ls72_ls63_ls68;jsessionid=000 1rWGpkt_40sfM9mNeUZ4GN70:3BN5LVMINA?_STRTG3=tr"]grain [/URL]

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

DO you actually have any Idea what Pulse Canada does?

It is some of the best money I ever spent as a pulse grower.

Gordon Bacon is one of the hardest workers... making markets better for western pulse growers... that we can all be proud to be a part of.

Now... I fail to understand the attack.

What is bothering you about them registering?

Have you registered?

[rbrunel]

actually if you are part of an exec or management of a farm org and you meet with miniters you havce to register. check out any legit farm group.

[parsley]

This is about lobbying. And if it is a waste of farmers' money.

It's not about an attack on any individual, Tom. You view lobbying through negative eyes, though, don't you? Yup. We all do.

Pulse has a whole lineup of lobbyists. Too many. Click on them.

So has "grain"

Piled a mile high and a mile deep.

Try examining if it's a sound approach for agriculture, the farm community, begging government for money,$1.4M, hands out, and them turn around and lobby the same government to 'make decisions' for farming. After all grant money has strings attached!

The most ridiculous of all, is the lobbying by the Wheat Board, who has a Minister especially appointed for them by Parliament, lobbying the government to speak to their MInister. We don't know how much they really spend lobbying, though.

Just a tad waste of farmers' money when the CWB simply picking up the phone and speaking to their own designated PERSONAL MINISTER would do.

Begging for Government financial support only allows and encourages the Governmmetnt to become the main core of influence in any ag organization

Professinally lobbying government has become a business with companies set up on Parliament Hill, a dime a dozen and farmers should ask themselves if the lobbying is self serving.
It's a fair question. Pars

[wd9]

The trouble with Canadian farm lobbying is everyone says something different so the net effect is null. Many countries, quebec included, speak with one voice and get things done.

If you go to Ottawa you gotta register.

[parsley]

Change in what we do in agriculture would benefit farmers and everyone else.

Which do you not agree with:

1. Agriculture has a countless often unrelated multitude of voices that gets farmers working agianst each other. Good for the government, bad for farmers.

2. Lobbying is generally disresepected by the public at large, and generally perceived as a negative act. It doesn't enhance agriculture in th least.

3. Lobbying is a drain on society because it wastes human resources hours.There are more efficient ways to present ideas.

4. No matter who the farm group, they often come back frustrated.

5. Lobbying has become Act One Scene I repetitive. I mean, how many times in a year can Ms. House have an audience with Mayo Schmidt?

6. Lobbying, becomes tremendously expensive. Look at the pulse growers lobbyists: Gordon Bacon. Jeff Bond.Greg Cherewyk, Gordon Kurbis,Carl Potts and Peter Watts all eating and flying and perdieming dollars. Do farmers end up with more dollars at the farmgate, though?

7. There are SMARTER ways to tell the government what farmers want that costs less. No need at all to fly to Ottawa. it's called the internet.

8. If farmers don't set boundaries on spending, the people getting trough salaries will not mention ways to save.
I don't blame them. Farmers have not been frugal with their dollar resources. We can do a better job spending half the money if we do things differently. Pars

[dave4441]

Parsley states: Pulse has a whole lineup of lobbyists. Too many. Click on them.

How many are listed? 6, CEO and 5 directors in different areas. Most of their time is spent educating government on issues like selenium in peas or indian phytosanitary issues. I am guessing that is why they have to be registered. These are small potatoe issues in the larger scheme but are big issues as a pea grower. HEck the minister was talking about the terminator gene being in canola. They need all the help they can get.

Would you think the transportation guy should handle trade issues? Maybe whittle the list down to 1 or 2 and hope they can develop realtions with the entire federal government. Give me a break.

In other threads you talk about grower organizations not representing growers at the table, now there is too many in the case of "pulse" as you state. You want the flax guys heads for not being represented at the proper table and prepared for the triffid issue. As usual, complaints from Parsley but no real solutions. You say that they are "ex government". One out of 6 is ex government if you take out the couple of guys that had summer student jobs. Wow. Nice generalizations. You like to sit around and play internet detective while the rest of the world moves forward with real concerns that actually put money in growers pockets. The good thing about the pulse industry is their is no conflicting opinions on the issues.

[dave4441]

Sorry, what i meant to say was most of their time WHILE at the fed table is to educate. They have diverse workplans and activities, much of which is NOT lobbying.

I happen to know these guys on a personal basis and you will not find a more passionate hardworking group of people that KNOW that bringing home dollars to pulse producer margins, in Canada, is what their job is. Many come from farm families or have involvement in farm operations. I get a little pissed when i see people refer to others work when they obviously do not know what they do or who they are.

By the way, the largest funder of Pulse Canada is the federal government and our job as producers is to direct those funds in the best possible manner to affect positive change at the grower level. None of Pulse Canada staff do anything without the broad direction and support of a board comprised mainly of farmers.

Take a look at the structure of Flax Council of Canada. For the most part that thing is funded by grain companies. Pulse Canada BOD is comprised of 2 trade members and the rest are growers. Growers make the decisions and direct government funds. Your comment about govt money directing research is correct, but if you are not at the table you do not have the ability to massage anything.

[parsley]

"By the way, the largest funder of Pulse Canada is the federal government"

That's my point Dave.

[dave4441]

And my point is sitting around blogging is not going to influence how those dollars are spent. You can either be at the table or get the decision made for you by individuals that are not knowledgeable about what will drive margins at the grower level. It is simple.

[parsley]

dave,
My observation of Agriculture is that every crop sector courts more government involvement. More grants.

Is it what we should be chasing? Does more government put more money in farmers' pockets?

You can't court free trade and court more government involvement at the same time.

There are lots of ducky employees in the world. I don't dislike them. That doesn't mean farmers need them lobbying the Minister to describe the properties of selenium.

Agriculture is not blooming in comparison to other industries. Yet, farmers grow good crops. In many instances, it is not reflected at the farmgate.

You should be able to examine every aspect of farming business without being defensive and protectionist.

Be ruthless in your examination. Nothing is sacred.

It's important to be able to look at the policies that are in place and either dispense with them, or fix them or redirect them. Some policies are not sound. If they were, farm incomes would be better than $22,000 net. That's the proof...what mamma puts in her purse.

The folks most sensitive to analysis and observations are often those who have helped create the policy that isn't serving farmers well.

Most organizations functioning under the thumb of our central government planning are neither accountable to or yielding as much money as they should for FARMERS.

And, I will repeat one solution I have harped on for probably ten years.. ....

""""""""Less government in all aspects of agriculture will bring farmers more money."""""""" It's just to cut and slash and get the job done. Pars

[parsley]

Maybe you sit at a table with ten guys and you lunch together, and snort a bit of coke, just kidding, and you make decisions and vote. But mostly the same guys will grind out similar agendas year after year. Look at the CWB. We are, after all, creatures of habit. That's why agriculture heads for the Ministers' offices every session. Habit.

Now, I'm not nearly as effective as you are if you are sitting at a Board table. Nor do I try to be. I'm writing books! But I can write an opinion piece, and information and ideas do spread. You may not like them. stubble wants government always selling his wheat. Some guys never thought any differently until the idea of dual marketing came up.

There are better and smarter ways to do things. I learned that from my kids when they were ten. It's just that sometimes we don't hear or want to hear.

Going to government is what Canadian farmers are accustomed to doing. How would pulse growers do without government largesse running things? Fall down on the ground like fainting goats?

btw, just a small point, if you check, some of the guys worked for the CWB Pars

[dave4441]

You can not go to China to eliminate a trade barrier to Selenium levels in field peas without the Canadian government. You can not go to India to negotiate phyto issues without the Canadian government. An individual can not go to Morocco or columbia or Peru to negotiate a free trade agreement without the Canadian government. You are not going to change regulatory requirements for pesticides and generics without the Canadian government. You will not enfluence carbon trading and get paid for those standards without government involvement. You can not address transportation without having the feeral government onside. These are big picture issues that have to be addressed. These are actvities done that i do not see as lobbying activities, they are what Pulse Canada does to put money into the growers pocket. Call them lobbyists if you wish, but that is not the literal role of their positions.

I agree on many levels that less government is better. No question. But when research dollars are available then we as growers must enfluence how they are spent. Lots of public research has put lots of money in farmers pockets. Key is to being close enough to direct the research. Governments want to be told from a broad group what needs to be done, from a group that represents national interests. Not many farm groups can do that. Pulse industry is not without conflicting ideas, but it does have few issues that are combative.

Re the $22000 number. I have to ask if anyone on this site really believes that is what their average annual/equity income is. I think that number does a diservice to the industry as noone in their right mind would invest and risk the dollars we do to obtain that level of income. What effects this number? Tax planning/deferred income, absentee landlords with farm income, hobby farmers, income splittin with family, cousins, etc. Personal write offs become farm expenses? Is it our tax system? I think their is alot of people with a bit of farm income that spend their days in the city. I know alot of farmers that have created alot of wealth in the last 10 or 15 years. What we can agree on is that wealth did not come from CWB crops.

[dave4441]

Actually Parsley, I may not be a fan of the CWB but i do know there is some really strong people at the CWB that's carreers will sky rocket if the board falls. No body wants to hear that but it is the truth. You want to hire CDN grain industry analysts, it is a good place to start. Many employees leave because they want to do more with their careers. Just working at CWB has no influence either good or bad and more likely is a good training ground.