Larry Hill Democracy

[Raven]

Larry Hill states:

"we believe that Prairie farmers should have the right to control and direct their marketing organization through their democratically elected CWB board of directors."

"We believe it is important to respect democracy and the will of farmers as expressed through a democratic process. ... as farmers, we have the right to run our own organization."

Support for the pursuits of Larry Hill and his ilk can be found in excerpts of a scholarly and intellectual book:

“To render possible a conscious planned development of the economy and social life generally [or single-desk marketing], it is necessary to carry out a socialist revolution, abolish capitalism [free market selling] and build a socialist society [prairie wheat farmers].” [DONE]

“The free market with its anarchy and competition is replaced by scientific, planned control. [by the clever CWB bureaucrats].” [DONE]

“The economic foundation of socialism is public ownership [single-desk], which unites and consolidates people, excluding from the life of society [farmers] anarchy and cut-throat competition, the unbridled rule of the market.” [DONE]

“control is to prevent any component [farmer] of significance to the system [single-desk] from dropping out of it” [DONE]

“The paramount role of control over people … refers not to the abolition of control in general, but to the withering away of political state control … it is performed by the citizens [farmers] themselves through their elected representatives … Control under socialism is genuinely democratic” [UN-DONE BY THE COURTS]

The book is: The SCIENTIFIC MANAGEMENT OF SOCIETY by V.G. Afanasyev published in the USSR in 1971.

[parsley]

Larry Hill seems the exact kind of guy who would read, endorse, and work to implement the social engineering of a 1971 communist.

You left Russia? Pars

[tipsy]

If Mr Hill and the other militant directors who strongly expound in democracy, believed its important to respect democracy and the will of farmers, then prairie producers would have market choice for malting barley and probable the minor classes of wheat by now. I once heard the statement that you judge a person by what they do not by what they say. Their actions prove that they only believe in a true socialist western wheat board regardless of what prairie produces want.

[Fransisco]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Cuba

[bucket]

The word "we" in people's statements is quite interesting.

The problem is, there is no "we" at the end of the statements. Could the "we" please stand up and be counted.



Where are the "WE" people?

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket et el;

I believe the problem is this simple:

What moral ethical standards do we stand by?

Chairman Hill... just like Chairman Ritter before him... have lost the fundamental ethical standards that built Canada:

1a) Do unto others as you would have done unto you,
b) Do not do unto others as you would not have others do unto you;
2a) Do not infringe upon the Rights, Freedoms or Property of others, and
b) Keep all contracts willingly, knowingly and intentionally.
3a) That for every wrong there is a remedy,
b) The end does not justify the means,
c) Fundamental principals cannot be set aside to meet the demands of convenience or to prevent apparent hardship in a particular case,
d) Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law,
e) Two wrongs do not make a right, and
f) One can enlarge the rights of the people; however they cannot be taken away without their informed consent.


Without these universal standards that were the fabric of western civilization... what do we have?

The populist and citizen is required to stand and fight for these principals;

BUT government/institutions and politicians (those elected to make decisions) are above being responsible to treat the citizen in the same manner they expect to be the standard they will be respected and treated by!

Is there any wonder this civilisation is headed over a cliff? The CWB is a symptom of a very huge disaster just waiting to happen!

When will the citizen be expected to treat politicians like they treat us?

[Raven]

Bucket, I think it is more understandable if you replace "WE" with "WE SOCIALISTS"

[Raven]

TOM4CWB,

Isn't the CWB a social microcosm of the old (and failed) collectivist system in an otherwise free market world?

From Wikipedia:

"Social Microcosms are miniature spheres of distinctly separate human interaction and behavior within a city, country, or planet."

[stubblejumper]

It is hard to believe that so called christians try to play the religion card just because they are in a minority. The CWB will cease to exist at some time in the future, that is a given. It should and can not happen in a democratic country untill the majority of the producers affected decide it is time.

[Fransisco]

Stubble, the CWB is not a democratic country. And Canada is a parliamentary democracy not a bureaucratic one like they have in Cuba.

Furthermore the courts have ruled, once again, that it is the Feds who are in charge. You seem to think that you can ignore the rule of law in a parliamentary democracy.

[agstar77]

I guess if it's okay for Steve, when he prorogued parliament, should be good enough for the rest of us.

[gregpet]

Hey Agstar it was good enough for Chretien:

Jean Chretien prorogued Parliament four times during his time as Prime Minister: February 5, 1996; September 18, 1999; September 16, 2002; and November 12, 2003.

* On each occasion, the Liberals killed their own legislation. Several bills ended up dying over and over again due to Liberals proroguing Parliament or calling early elections.

* September 16, 2002 – After a summer of Liberal in-fighting and Jean Chretien being forced to announce his planned retirement date in August, Chretien prorogued Parliament, killing legislation so that he could unveil his legacy agenda.

* According [to] Eddie Goldenberg, Chretien decided to have a Throne Speech just to test the will of the Martinite forces who were trying to push him out early: Chretien was happy. “I like that. It is exactly what we just discussed. Prepare me a statement. But just one more thing,” said the old fox. “I want a Throne Speech in the fall. The government will stand or fall on it. If they want to vote against me on it, then it is the one case in which I will run again.” (Eddie Goldenberg, The Way it Works, p. 380)

* November 12, 2003 – Jean Chretien announced that Parliament was prorogued on the eve of the Liberal leadership convention (so Chretien and Martin didn’t have to sit together in the House of Commons and face a dispute over who was Prime Minister). Martin did not become Prime Minister until December 12, 2003 and Parliament did not resume until February 2, 2004 – almost four months later

* The current session has lasted as long as many comparable sessions under the Liberals, and longer than several of the sessions under Jean Chretien and Paul Martin.

[Fransisco]

And Bob Rae

http://www.torontosun.com/comment/columnists/christina_blizzard/2010/01/22/12577221.html

Christina Blizzard- Let me tell you about the biggest rogue who’s a pro when it comes to prorogation.

Stephen Harper, you say?

Absolutely not.

I give you Bob Rae, King of the Prorogues.

Yep, that Bob Rae. Remember when he was premier? Sure, he was a preachy New Democrat back then. Now, he’s a preachy Liberal and part of the cabal slamming Harper for his so-called assault on democracy.

There’s a YouTube video that shows him slamming Harper’s prorogation of Parliament — to the tune of Let It Be.

What a hypocrite!

As premier, he prorogued this Legislature not once, not twice — but three times. And for much longer than Harper has prorogued the federal Parliament.

Rae’s NDP won power Sept. 6, 1990. On Dec. 19, 1991, Rae prorogued the House. They didn’t come back until April 6, 1992. He then prorogued again, Dec. 10, 1992 — and didn’t come back until April 13, 1993.

By 1994, his government had run out of steam. They were running double-digit deficits and he’d doubled the debt. Some of his experimental policies proved laughable at best and disastrous at worst.

Limping badly, he prorogued for the third time on Dec. 9, 1994. The House did not sit again until the legislature was dissolved April 28, 1995.

Rae didn’t even bring in a budget that year.

For four-and-a-half months, this province had no sitting Legislature.

Was there a grass-roots uprising of self-righteous people decrying Rae for ending democracy?

Was there heck? Why?

Our saviour?

Because those smarmy types who like to attack Harper as being undemocratic are the people who think Rae is a genius and the saviour of our country.

The criticisms that have been levelled at Harper are nonsensical — generally expounded by ivory tower types who’d never heard of prorogation until Harper did it in 2008.

Why did Harper prorogue back then? Because one Bob Rae refused to accept the election result. Like it or not, Canadians gave Harper a minority government.

It was the third time Rae has tried to topple a minority government. His previous two attempts were successful. In 1985, he moved the non-confidence motion that brought down Frank Miller’s Tories. Five years earlier, he brought in the amendment to Joe Clark’s budget that toppled him, too.

That’s why they call Rae “Back Door Bob” around here.

Rae and his massive ego simply can’t make the kind of accommodations needed to make minority government work. He brings them down at the first possible occasion.

Prorogations are routine parliamentary procedure. You can’t end a session without one — unless you dissolve Parliament.

They used to have prorogation speeches here. The press gallery used to celebrate with a paper slide. As the lieutenant-governor finished the speech, we’d throw our papers over the edge of the gallery to the floor of the chamber and onto her head. I think they stopped the speeches after the gallery put on one particularly passive-aggressive paper slide. It was more a throw than a slide and it made the lieutenant-governor nervous. Now the government usually prorogues while the House isn’t sitting.

In 1974, then-Premier Bill Davis prorogued the House at 10 a.m. — and delivered a Throne Speech starting the new session at 3 p.m. the same day.

Choke on this

Those lefties who think long sessions mean good government can choke on this: The longest session in the history of the Legislature was Mike Harris’ first — it lasted 813 days. The current session has lasted 785 days. If the government doesn’t put it out of its misery and mercifully prorogue by Feb. 19, it will set a new record.

And if you think MPPs are working here, dream on. The House hasn’t sat since mid-December and won’t return until mid-February.

Hmmm. Premier Dalton McGuinty, this session has lasted far too long. It’s time to prorogue. In fact, I demand it. I think I will start my own pro-prorogation Facebook page.

[TOM4CWB]

Stubble,

Interesting comment:

"It is hard to believe that so called christians try to play the religion card just because they are in a minority"

WHAT was that?

So... the very fibre of our western civilisation:

"1a) Do unto others as you would have done unto you,
b) Do not do unto others as you would not have others do unto you;
2a) Do not infringe upon the Rights, Freedoms or Property of others, and
b) Keep all contracts willingly, knowingly and intentionally.
3a) That for every wrong there is a remedy,
b) The end does not justify the means,
c) Fundamental principals cannot be set aside to meet the demands of convenience or to prevent apparent hardship in a particular case,
d) Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law,
e) Two wrongs do not make a right, and
f) One can enlarge the rights of the people; however they cannot be taken away without their informed consent."

These very ethical principals... that YOU expect ME to measure up to...

NOW I am required to set aside and write you a cheque... send you my and our families hard earned cash...

To make your life easy and simple?

THe majority has the right to confiscate the property 'to meet the demands of convenience or to prevent apparent hardship in a particular case' (your concept of CWB collective equality!)

Looks like your 'religion' (the CWB salvation of grain farmers)... is being shoved down my families throat!

How on earth... do you justify this?

[Raven]

TOM4CWB you can't continue to leave the fate of your farm and family in the hands of ingrained socialists like stubble. There is nothing that will change their mindset. Trying to vote our way out of this abomination will not work. However, the door has been opened by the courts. Don't let the opportunity pass, contact Minister Ritz and ask for export licences for producers. As a seed grower you know that your export licence is your freedom.