Agriculture is a business. Farming without a financial motive is gardening.

[wmoebis]

Charliep, you mention the US. Are they testing for trifid? Are they finding any?

[charliep]

TOM4CWB

What would global acceptance look like? Who should have the final say?

Perhaps the reason I asking is because soybeans, corn, canola and other crops are making significant agronomic and productivity progress based at least in part to access to all non traditional breeding techniques. Acre are increasing based on profitability.

Cereals and other crops are lagging. To date, the implication has been lower acres of cereals (at least in North America) and more acres of other crops. Cereal production is moving to areas of the world where access to technology is more limited and they can use their cost resource base (land) to grow cereals competitively.

[charliep]

Not sure on the US. Usual practice is don't ask (read test) and don't tell. Seed sharing and cross border movement means they have the same problems we do. A caveat is their flaxseed crush capacity can likely handle plus Canada's exports to them. Perhaps the real lesson is relying on one part of the world for 80 % of what Canada grows with no value added industry at home can best be described as stupid.

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

Since triffid is registered in the US, unless the crusher is exporting the meal to the EU it does not matter to the commercial trade.

It has been claimed that the oil crushed from flax is a component but not the most valuable part of flax in the EU. This is why the GM event has made it difficult, flax meal is used in many products.

One would hope we don't introduce any other problems or GM events like this... our reputation as a safe secure food supplier is mud. We took a massive hit how does anyone explain how this happened? Sooo what else is going on?

[charliep]

Is the issue the genetic event in flaxseed or how the industry (which includes everyone from the plant breeding community to farmers who grow flaxseed to exporters to processors both here and in Europe) have handled the issue?

I note most countries have a very clear biotechnology policy in place and are acting on it. Is biotechnology and genetic engineering an issue with soybeans? Corn? Would someone in another country set US policy for these crops?

Does Europe have a clear policy on biotechnology (which mutagenics, hybrid breeding, etc)? Will European policy to transgenics change over time?

What is happening in China around biotech? Australia?

The concern is that every new biotechnological event seems to have to be evaluated in multiple regions and under multiple rules/processes. The direction should be to common scientifict evaluation of these events and from there international recognition at least at this level.

[charliep]

A weird comment but my understanding is that many cases, Canada's approach to Plants with Novel Traits (PNT) is more stringent that European processes. Yes, the Europeans would get more excited about a new variety based on transgenics but would likely register a new variety bred via mutagenics more easily than would happen here in Canada under PNT.

[Burbert]

Know your own food? What a crock. Most consumers couldn't care less about where their food comes from. As long as the price is good and its wrapped in plastic on a plastic tray, out of a box or can, MRE's serve it up. Costco and Walmart, lead the way delivering what the public wants, at a price it can afford to pay. Consumers want the extra money for ipods, cell phones and big screen TV's. Know your own food, yeah right. Lip service man, thats all these phrases are lip service.

[oneoff]

What kind of science is it when the complete knowledge about a crop eg. flax) is condensed into a data sheet and makes statements in no uncertain terms that flax just doesn't cross pollinate with related weedy species or other flax plants. Such a summary was done for flax; and was one of the requirements of the development of Triffid flax. Thus there is no way that GM contamination could spread; so they claimed. Since no one counts to a million once; lets alone a few trillion times; then just maybe it does cross pollinate once in a while. Also; maybe there are other ways to get contamination from GM material; like mistakes; passing out free samples; terroristic and deliberate actions; a few unconscionable unscrupulous seed growers; poor housekeeping; ignorance combined with mistakes; stupidity; ignorance; carelessness etc.
Bottom line is that there is no licence to let GM material into someone else's conventional food source. It has been some time since anyone pointed out that this should have effectively ruined the organic market for flaxseed. If it doesn't; then the organic flax food market is as big a sham as the claim to be able to rid the world of all traces of Triffid flax.

[oneoff]

Charlie: The issue is that Triffid was not supposed to be able to contaminate common flax supplies. But it did happen in a hurry; and became widespread. No one will say exactly how it happened (if anyone even knows). That is tragic and no further proof should be needed that those who thought they could keep everything under control; had absolutely no idea of what could happen.
Do you charliep have any faith that with that attitude the same GM lobby and their supporters will do any better a job with the new GM wheat or alfalfa varieties etc.? My guess is that the decision to go ahead full bore on everything was made some years ago; and there will be no turning back. The premise is that someone else in another part of the world will do it if we don't get there first.
And charlie the issue is that there should be no licence to financially ruin another sector of agriculture; or another method of production such as organic farming. Neither one of these points requires elaboration; unless they are of no concern to an industry that cares only for its corporate and personal welfare.

[oneoff]

And Tom: It's because if you plant say 0.01% trace contaminated seed you will reap 0.01% trace contaminated seed (at essentially the same contaminated level). The non-Triffid seed will produce about 0.01% of your total flax crop and the rest of what was sown will produce 99.99%. When you get next year's triffid test done (if usuing the same test as last year) you should get back test results that are not statistically significant (but only 95 times out of a hundred)
One caveat; when growing that flax crop you must not be selectively helping the Triffid seed by applying chemicals such as sulfonureas. That's why Triffid was developed in the first place; and since ordinary flax is adversely affected ; you would expect that the Triffid levels would increase in those instances as it should produce relatively more seed that the non tolerant majority of the field population.
In summary sow trace contaminated crops (which is all we have now for flax seed supplies) and farmers and seed growers will always have trace contaminated flax
Or sow 1 in one million contaminated flax (which is just a wild guess which the current test can't begin to detect) and you will never lower the contamination level below that level. Its still trace contaminated. It won't turn into a hot spot; unless you select for it is some way. It also won't go away.
Now there are some old Normandy samples stashed away in the most unlikely places. Those supplies should be worth their weight in gold; and I'm sure that the industry has already done some work on that front. Farmers will one day pay dearly to get them back.

[JDGreen]

Wow burbert whatever meds your doctor put you on are working.. U actually made some sense in that post

[oneoff]

Its a way to easy to get the last word on this site. You get the feeling that very few (or no one) is listening; let alone disagreeing or adding to the debate. There is nothing worse than participating when you are really being marginalized or perhaps being laughed at or treated with disdain. Those aren't good enough reasons to take time to make a contribution.

[parsley]

It's both a market access issue and a food safety issue. And you know it is.

It is both because:
1. We've observed 27 countries give us the market access finger. You want more of the same? And people ARE interested in what they eat burbert, even if YOU are not.

Not very long ago, most families were not that up to speed on global financial matters,either, but now every pub is discussing money and credit and idiots who brought us to this point, including ourselves.

And food safety will be right up there in the discussions too. Very soon. Third world country bodies are much heathier than affluent G8 pigs at the trough eating food with chemical genes inserted in it. Munch. Munch.

Honestly. How stupid can we get? So we can grow yet more and flood the market with the already bugeoning bins multiplied by two. For what?

A few folks will make money, that's great planning and manipulating for the lucky ducky who want to cash in a moment of time, but the potential gene crossing and stacking risks, in the fields, on our farms, is so bloody stupid, it's hard for many to to debate it without disdain.

"Oh, ya, George, I just can't wait to eat another wheat resistant to this new chemical called Butplug. so I'm gonna grind up a batch on Saturday night, are ya comin over?"

Scientists know very little about how the parts that make up what we call food, fit together.

Scientists don't even know what the brain does/works.

In the scheme of things, humans think themselves clever, but we don't have a clue. Cleverness and intelligence are not the same, as someone once told me.

If we want to grow food for the world, and actually sell it, we'd better make sure we grow what they will eat.

And 27 countries have told you they don't want the Saskatchewan Crop Deveopment Centre's creation called Triffid flax. Don't want. Reject. Protest. ^(finger)

What part of that equation do you not understand?

Pars

[parsley]

And oneoff makes the point about cross-pollination, and his/her posing it should lead you to this question:

If Triffid is flourishing in every flax field...is it because it cross-pollinated and the scientist are incompetent/or liars, or is it because the seed growers are incompetent/ cheaters who multiplied it on the sly?

Take your pick, cowboys.

Either way.....apply your answer to the next modified crop lurking around spring's corner.

Makes you filled with confidence doesn't it.


Pars

[oneoff]

Its the ruination of alternate methods methods of farm production; organic production in particular (which I guess could be considered as close to traditional farming using "modern methods" as you will commonly see) and also farm production using conventional chemicals (but resisting the onslaught of GM traits in their seed varieties).