Cost of organic grain

[gregpet]

So the myth that organically grown food is healthier or more nutritious is just that a myth.

Good marketing tool for the organic industry but facts are facts.

If people are not choosing organic then they are choosing conventional/GMO food. Labeled or not that is the choice the majority make.

[bgmb]

Parsley, one question an organic perrson has never been able to answer for me, maybe you can.

How does an organic farmer replace the nutrients they are taking out of the soil?

[charliep]

I will answer one of your questions Parsley. Do I on purposely eat
genetically engineered food? The answer would be yes although as
a consumer I don't think of that way. I eat food that is safe by
Canadian regulatory standards based on confidence in the food
system. Eating highly processed food with high fat/sugar/salt is an
ongoing issues as obesity epidemic takes over the developed
world. Issues around cleanliness in processing plants (read ecoli,
salmonella) are important to me. Environmental issues such as
release of phytates into water systems via livestock manure (reason
that the GE pigs were bred) will also become more important in the
future. The answer may not the GE pig but agriculture better have
other solutions to this. Off topic but an interesting case study is to
look at the U. of S. challenges of getting a low phytate barley (bred
using conventional breeding) registered by CFIA under plant with
novel trait legislation but off topic.

[parsley]

If you lined up consumers in a mall, and asked them, "Do you prefer to eat organic/natural food or biotech/GM/designed food?" ....What would the answer be?

Most people will choose organic. That's my point.

University students will likely choose organic. Children will choose organic. It's the rare person who chooses to have their food's genes modified by adding chemicals. And that's mainly been the thrust of what is happening. Say,is most current modification a chemical gene insert useful to chemical companies, instead of an agronomic insert useful soley to farmers?

Most people do not know that they already eat mostly genetically modified food. And food companies don't want them to know, either.

Corn and soybeans have been modified and are the basic staple products used in conventionally prepared foods.

Nobody in their right marketing minds will print a label "boasting"..."Your food has been modified and contains a chemical gene."

hey, the president of Monsanto doesn't eat organic food because it's a whim.

I agree with your statement:"organic farming has always been more of a food safety marketing strategy than a sustainability tool"

Bottom line: Consumers do not trust companies who jiggle genes in your food in order to sell chemicals to farmers. Why would they? Organics came into place because of allergies, and food safety issues. How many people are now allergic to wheat? gluten? Isn't it a phenomena? Why?

ALL farming takes nutrients from the land. The nutrients end up in your body.

Will central planning governments have food-aid packages GM modified to prevent conception, and target only "specified" countries, (labelled as such as a result of a show of hands in a closed boardroom). Who will be the first to be issued the "Operation URDUN" food packages with the object of modifying growing numbers?

Sounds far-fetched?

Central planners abound. pars

[parsley]

As I said, Greg, I did compare the US study on vegetables and was quite amazed. Organics had not only MORE element % in the vegetables, but also contained additional elements that were not present in the conventional vegetables.

I understand the push by conventional farmers to want the public to accept genetically modified food....to eat a handfull of Triffid and say "yummy, that chemical gene tastes good." The best way to gain full acceptance is by ragging on organics. But in the meantime, food safety has become an issue, not only in Canada, but throughout the world. People are looking at their food and saying, "What the hell?"

Did you know that other countries aren't looking at Canadian conventional grain in quite the same acceptance light as they did ten years ago? Why is that?

My gooot got, BASF and Bayer and Syngenta spend a fortune selling conventional farmers Panther and Rabbit and Cheetah and Snail products (Maybe not quite accurate, I'm out of my field here, and tree...lol)

So maybe the chem co's should up^^^^^^ the farmers' price of chemical price still more and spend a wad of the proceeds telling consumers that Panther and Rabbit and Cheetah and Snail will enhance health.

Good plan?

Hit the farmers with: 'Full time spray is the easiest way.'

Hit the Canadian consumer with: 'Full time spray is the healthiest way.'

I read that farmers have been cut off the testing projects,is this true for some of you AVers?, so the good thing is now all on-farm test results will finally be accurate.

Farmers can't count I guess. And the chem companies will keep their test results perfect, intact, and confidential? Who guards the test results? Toyota's ex-research statistician? Pars

PS. I'm feeling sporty this morning after watching Anderson Silva last night on UFC, but lamenting that the Swede got whooped. LOL Pars

[parsley]

1. newguy: "But it has made our planet sustainable."

Comment: Our plant is NOT sustainable. Too many people.

2. charliep: "Directed mutagensis? Using knowledge of genes/gene
sequencing to achieve a desired result"

Comment: Are the scientific methodologies that you reference here, actually the most frequently used methods of modifying crops/grains that is utilized in actual PRACTICE in crops in farmers' fields as I write? I find gene insertion of chemicals into grain is the prominent tool used in my part of the world.

3. bgmb: "How does an organic farmer replace the nutrients they are taking out of the soil?"

Comment: Crop rotation builds soil and nutrients. Plowdowns are common. Land is often planted to forage for several years to build back nutrients. Organic fertilizers are used. Composting is practiced. Mulching. Wide variety of nutrients are put back into the soil when various methods are used.

Pars

[charliep]

I would challenge you on whether consumers want organic versus
conventional. Surveys don't necessarily back this up and behavior for
sure doesn't -organic food is available at most stores but still a small
percentage of total consumer food purchases. I recognize that organic
food sector has been growing fast. Consumers have the choice of
organic but most buy conventional product. Some of the reasons are
price, availability, convenience, selection, etc.

Not sure about strategy of associating non GE with organic. As long as
organic uses conventional bred seed, it you are at the mercy of what ever
decisions are made in the about biotechnology and plant breeding. Even
the current issues about adventitious presence of GE in crops and better
testing processes/tight tolerances put your industry at risk. The question
will be how the organic industry responds.

[gregpet]

Line up all the people you want and ask them any question you like but the fact is most people choose not to buy organic.

P.S. Silva made an ass out of himself yesterday. Bring on GSP.

[lakenheath]

All you guys have blinders on. "My way is right and your way is wrong", seems to be the resounding theme.

Both organic and convetional systems are "un-natural". Organic systems compact, erode, destroy organic matter as they rely heavilly on destructive tillage.

Conventional systems with zero till have positive effects on the health of the zone but rely on chemical fertilizers and sprays that probably are not great for everyone's health and well being.

The only truly sustainable system is seeding the whole prairies back to native grass and let the buffalo roam. Everyone would eat bison, berries and roots and grow a garden.

But, yes this will never happen. We are all out to make a buck and we will continue to operate as is.

I just get mad when organic freeks think they are these amazing stuards of the land. They have there head so far us their @ss that they can't see what they are doing is harmful in a different way. They are as brainwashed with organic bullsh$t, as conventional guys are by the chemical companies.

So let's learn to respect our differences. We will continue to harm the environment whether we are blazing tillage organic or spray happy conventiionals.

[bgmb]

I'm not surprised that you didn't answer my question Parsley. There is no way under an organic system to replace most of the nutrients you are removing.
Green manure is not adding nutrients just cycling them so you can utilize them.

Really organic farmers should be considered miners not farmers. Take out more than you replace year after year and you will end up with a depleted soil.

There will always be a small demand for organic, mostly consumers who don't understand science.