Flax Council and RR Flax development

[charliep]

[charliep]

Not supporting things one way or the other about this announcement or whether Canada needs another herbicide tolerant crop. Just curious about what should be done. $4 million barely gets you in the door on a project like this let alone getting a new variety out. A biotech breeding event from activities I have been looking at costs $60 to $100 million with an additional $20 to $40 million in regulatory costs to get approved.

Should government invest in plant breeding at all? What is the model and how should it be run?

[parsley]

Over five million dollars of Canadian taxpayers/flax growers' money is being invested in an American company in the USA. Should we conclude Canada has stupid scientists?

Was there a tender? Invitations?

What are the terms?
Has a company been set up in Canada?
Name?
Does anyone Canadoan/Flax person sit on Cibus' Board?

Is anyone on the Flax Coiuncil on Cibus' payroll or is a representative, or did we just send the cash by pony?

Are farmers responsible for unintended circumstances?

Is Rounup ready flax what the traditional customers want or simply what flax investors' and biotech investors' want and manipulated into position?

Was an acceptance study done? Where is it?

If the EU market is lost, who pays?

Were there any conflict of interests with regards to decision makers?

I could ask a hundreds questions about process.

The process is not defensible, charliep.

The downloading on farmers is not defensible, charliep

Those are my observations, rightly or wrongly.

Your quibbling over biotechnological terms leaves me unconvinced. NO matter how you like to paint it, and you do seem to me to like to paint herbicide pushers in a fine twightlight hue, the new and improved flax will indeed have a roundup resistance gene, magically inserted according to the lobbyists for legislative-word gymnastics.

Tom4WB's flax is sure not the source of the gene that is to be massaged into the new and improved herbicide tolerance seed. He's got one seed in his bin with a herbicide inserted into it, a gene the new boys on the block want to decimate, and replace it with one they can instead make money from.

The system being buldozed into place will eventually result in a single seed variety, open pollination resulting in Western Canadian contamination, a neverending herbicide dependency/supplier, a single testing company, and all government grants flowing down the same throat.

You embrace the system. I don't.

I raised a scientist, so I am open to science, interrogation, and debate, but I see issues from a farmers' eye, as well.

There are too many players/policy makers who avoid conceding anything is amiss with plant breeding legislation confering rights while avoiding responsibilities, and tragically for farmers, by refusing to recognize the legal and economic and agronomic responsibilites farmers will be saddled with more, than they can bear, frankly, annoys me.

I live in the farm community and rightly or wrongly, it is what I see ahead. I am retirement age, so my voice of warning is not about me.

Farmers will be workers, not owners. Pars

BTW, I hate to argue with biotech experts, just as you might hate to argue I cannot properly read, so read it for yourself:

"Alyson Emanuel, BASF Director, Global Strategic Marketing Herbicides, said, "We are very pleased with the success of the next generation of CLEARFIELD products. BASF worked with Cibus to develop seeds using Cibus' RTDS technology to target a specific trait not previously achieved with other technologies and the results have been outstanding. As a result of the development of this new proprietary herbicide tolerant trait using the RTDS process, seed companies will be able to put this unique trait into hybrids more efficiently, leading to increased on-farm yields"


Farmers spray. The plant doesn't die. I wonder why.
"develop crops with tolernace to a"a spectrum of crop protection products that MAI markets" as well as "performance enhancement" traits. Further details remains confidential"

Yes, well happy eating.

[parsley]

http://www.flaxcouncil.ca/files/web/NEWS%20RELEASE%20-%20Flax%20Council%20of%20Canada%20Announces%20Indu stry%20Stewardship%20Program%20for%20Farm%20Saved% 20Planting%20Seed%2003.12.10%20F.pdf


You will note the companies are saying they are going to have a hard time finding a market for your Triffid flax. Linoleum. (Never did before as long as it wasn't marked food flax)

But an easy time finding a market for your Roundup Ready Flax (you buy from RR from them). Linoleum.

Duh!

It's actually funny, isn't it? Pars

[hlg]

Back to basic marketing,ASK the customer what they want, don`t tell them what they have to buy. This new partnersnip will really show them we mean business, they will have no choice but to buy!!

[hlg]

When something goes wrong we can sue the Americans!! Ya right..

[charliep]

Just one question. Is Europe using the technology described above
in their breeding programs?

[charliep]

If the trait were fusarium head blight resistance via mutagenesis versus a herbicide
tolerance one, would this be less of a sin? Or is the expansion of fusarium head blight
into new areas and the increasing virilance of resulting mycotoxins not an issue? What
if the traits are more efficient use of nutrients? Improved ability to use water/maintain
yields during dry periods or some other agronomic trait?

Will note that Australia is making progress in these areas - out of necessity I might add.
They have well funded research and development problems.

[charliep]

Must be a freudian slip. Should be programs - not problems. They
are working toward meeting the challenges of agronomic issues.

[hlg]

Charliep I personally don`t disagree, but make sure it doesn`t wreck already fragile markets. It is a shame that Canadians aren`t smart enough to keep this development at home.

[parsley]

"problems"

You got it right the first time, charliep! LOLOLOL

I can surely get on a rant. I researched Cibus when Food Navigator came out last Friday, but decided I'd stick to gardening with Year II Resident gardener instead, the poor fellow, but when Terreluckyfellow posted this thread this morning,a bit ticked, too, I just couldn't hold the horses back. LOL I think you could agree that I'm not the mousey bland woman you thought I was when you met me in Calgary, right, charliep? LOL

You don't want to invite me to go canoeing with you this summer, either. Now, there's a spot of healthy advice for you. LOL Pars

[charliep]

Algonquin this year. Looking forward to it.

[charliep]

From an activity of this past month, plant breeders tell me that herbicide tolerance
is low hanging fruit on the biotech scheme of things - easy to do. Way off topic
but interesting to note this trait came on RR tolerance came off mutagenesis
(dealing with the plants individual genes without introducing from outside
material). I am assuming is possible.

Other traits are much harder to establish. Googling to remember (too tough to
remember for an old economist) but I remember the word homogeneity, barley
and being able to retain a characteristic in subsequent generations. This is in
normal plant breeding using tools (old and new) in the tool box.

[charliep]

For what it is worth, here is the Aussie approach to GM (in this case genetically engineered). Note the traits are not herbicide tolerance but rather starch composition and drought tolerance.

[URL="http://www.merredinmercury.com.au/news/local/news/general/gene-modified-wheat-barley-trials-proposed/1804308.aspx?storypage=1"]Gene modified wheat, barley trials proposed[/URL]

[charliep]

Actually if I read more carefully, nutrient (read nitrogen) use efficiency. The below are the OGTR documents on the controled release.

[URL="http://www.ogtr.gov.au/internet/ogtr/publishing.nsf/Content/new-index-1"]OGTR[/URL]