Excretion Flows from Regulatory Checkoff Powers

[parsley]

To give credit where credit is due, Rocky, being designated as a grain marketing cripple by the CWB has somewhat prepared me for a possibly unfortunate future as an ambulatory cripple.

[rockpile]

Oh Pars, stop being such a drama Queen!
Rockpile

[parsley]

Singing in a baritone voice:

Who's next, who's next? "Spain. Portugal. Ireland?

Rocky, oh, Rocky, oh Rocky, I thought you would support 'collective bailouts'!"

LOL

[wd9]

Charlie's question is fundamental to this discussion. Who should pay? Well Parsely, who should pay? And how considering we all benefit from the research including WGRF and esp the grains and oilseeds commissions like canola, barley, and peas.

[checking]

Who should pay echos wd9?

I suspect it is a lot like R&D in human medicine. In other words, it's confusing. Drug companies will say that it costs them $1.1 to $1.2 billion/new drug. This means they require their thousands/month from individuals desperate for their condition relief. Opponents will say that the actual cost to deliver a new drug to market is around $100 million, and that the public provides 86% of the funding. This sounds to me to either a gross underestimate of costs, or an excessive padding of expenses.

Is there this same ten fold plus swing in grain R&D? Maybe, some of you think it doesn't matter so long as the end result is successful.

Charliep says, "the amount of money WGRF has would (suspect there was a "not" after would) even start a venture into GE project - $60 to $100 million to develop a trait, and a further $20 to $40 million to get through regulatory approval."

On the other comparative side, gustgd says, "I see more and more farmers asking for the money back simply because the dollars are becoming quite significant."

More confusion when, wd9 says any farmer's contribution is matched 20-30 times. Perhaps wd9 should enlighten us as to who these generous souls are that sweeten the pot to this extent. I would then know who does pay. Who knows, it may be the free loader that you despise.

[wmoebis]

One of my concerns is the fact that I don't know what the R&D is all about.

Are R&D ing for herbicide tolerance? Or is it sawfly resistance? Yield? Better intake of fert? Length of growing season?

There was sawfly resistant wheat 40 yrs ago then it was deregistered because no one was using it because the new registered varieties yielded better when sawfly wasn't a problem. There was 60 day barley years ago now you can't find it when we need it again. Was it deregistered? Or is for milling qualities. Desease resistance?

I would like to know what they are R&D ing for on my $1. How much is spent on each factor. Once the R&D is done and the grain is registered will I have to pay premium for my R&D?

I personaly would rather see R&D to develop a better price for the product I am growing now. Like maybe some flour and pasta mills out my back door and a rail system that actually works for the industry.

[hobbyfrmr]

Parsley, I have been on the tractor, slow to respond. The food show in Montreal was very good. I had a great time, the city of Montreal was also excellent. The exact opposite of what I was expecting. The people are friendly, and the french/english thing is non existent, they work in both languages without objection. The show was a hybrid consisting of foodstuffs for the central Canada market and also hardware, packaging, weighing equipment. There was organic representation and I thought it was encouraging. Time will tell. Like you describe, there are the trade groups that use taxpayers money to go and hustle their countries' products, but there were also many private businesses just trying to sell product in Quebec Ontario, the highest population concentration in Canada. One example is an Italian company that sells organic tomatoes and shelf ready sauces, another one was Aloe Vera juice company from China. It was a really positive experience, if I make a sale, the trip will have paid off. I think trade shows are better than a trip to Las Vegas, or Viterra!! Its one way to learn what the industry is doing. Another way is the Crop Production show in Saskatoon. They offer the best farm stuff money can buy! The person has to decide if they are buying stuff, or selling stuff, then choose destination.

[parsley]

I, too have been on my garden tractor/cultivator for two days and will have several more days working the soil 15 inches or more deep. Low spots are working up nicely.

So, I think-filed your question, wd.

charliep keeps asking me over and over and over if I believe in research and I keep replying that I do, so hopefully that one is off the table.

So, how much?

Although funding is realized from governments, industry, farmers and benefactors (My friend just willed the U of S a couple of hundred thou) I'll deal with farmers'funding/checkoff money.

btw, I actually don't believe taxpayers' money towards an ag research budget should be legislated in perpetuity.

Nor, as a farmer-observer only, do I think industry's ag budget should be legislated, but if industry lobbies to commit to a monopoly-checkoff, I would put on another hat, my corp hat, and argue against such a stupid measure.


And my friends gift was, and I believe should remain, a voluntary act.

wd, this is not a 'full steam ahead' economic climate.

Therefore, and take a deep breath:

1. There should be ZERO increase in
farmer checkoff rates.

2. There should be ZERO increase in the number of farmer research projects for two years until the present projects are completed.

3.There should be ZERO increase in the dollar allocation to any current unfinished research projects (inflation costs ...nope)

Staff could be sliced or take a pay reduction.

4. And this will make you pee your training pants, wd:

THERE SHOULD BE AN OVERALL 20% DECREASE in 2011 VOLUNTARY CHECKOFF DEDUCTIONS.

5. Farmer deductions should NEVER EVER be mandatory and farmers should make sure to let your organization, your MLA, your MP, and the fund recipient know that you are dissatisified with the farmer presently representing you if he has peculiar mandatory tendencies.

Withholding checkoff money is the farmers only disciplinary stick. Some of the present directors don't like getting hit with that schtick. Hit them again. Withold your funding if that is your tactic of reminding them to shape up.

6. Funding predators' appetites will NEVER be satisfied. Western Grains just received all your railroad money for heavens sakes. They want more. Like a stray tomcat, funding predators will appear every spring and fall. Don't squat down.

7. Farmers are viewed as funding-marks in some circles. You are.

8. You will argue that farmer research funds are growthed through matching funds. Let's be blunt:

The Federal government BORROWS money to fund or match funding. They don't have any money in their piggybank. Taxpayers don't have a piggybank either, if you believe what the headlines scream at you these days about consumer debt, and credit card red. Farmers are taxpayers, too. Governments will be cutting back and taxing more.


8. Most farmers have a big operating loan to pay. You don't seem to be able to view the real world of numbers:


http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/21-014-x/21-014-x2009002-eng.htm

Lots to read here. Not a pretty picture. It's the real world. A few excerpts:


"Farm debt outstanding at December 31, 2008 rose to $59.1 billion, up 5.9% from December 31, 2007, continuing the steady upswing since 1993. For the third consecutive year, mortgage debt was greater than non-mortgage debt. In 2008, mortgaged debt rose 5.8% to $30.3 billion, while non-mortgaged debt rose 6.0% to $28.8 billion"

"Farm debt outstanding increasing steadily
Farm debt outstanding at December 31, 2008 rose to $59.1 billion, up 5.9% from December 31, 2007, continuing the steady upswing since 1993. For the third consecutive year, mortgage debt was greater than non-mortgage debt. In 2008, mortgaged debt rose 5.8% to $30.3 billion, while non-mortgaged debt rose 6.0% to $28.8 billion."

Get the picture?

Look at a bit more:

"The farm debt values in the farm debt outstanding series includes those of farm businesses and non-operator landlords (for liabilities outstanding on farm real estate leased to farm operators), they also include the personal portion of farm households. This series includes all farm sector liabilities regardless of ownership."

"Major holders of mortgaged farm debt were Farm Credit Canada (42.1%), chartered banks (25.7%), private individuals (13.0%), credit unions (10.1%) and provincial government agencies (4.7%). Most non-mortgaged debt was owed to chartered banks (51.0%) and credit unions (23.8%)."

"Farm debt in Canada was 16.3% above the previous five-year average, from 2003 to 2007. In 2008, all provinces increased their debt load, increases ranged from 1.6% in Prince Edward Island to 11.3% in Newfoundland and Labrador."

Yes, well.

9. When interest rates rise, and they will, it will take your breath away.

10. When municipal taxes rise, and they will, there will be NO sympathy for farmers.Your fuel will soar. Your chems and fert bills will make Mamma blink.

11.And a legislated checkoff will dig you deeper because every paid staff member will recieve their annual pay increase and you will pay it or it will be deducted from any government cheque you recieve, including tax refunds.

Bottom line: Grow up and live within your means. The research looks grand but we can't afford most of it. Pars

PS A few flowers are blooming, and the tomatoes lived outside in spite of the frost, and some potatoes are up and perky.

[parsley]

hobby, Thankd so much for the info, it was great. Montral is indeed exciting. We spent time there as well as a week in Quebec City.

The food.

Fantastic.

They focus on their food.
They take pride in their food.

Any new kinds of grains? Pars

[parsley]

"2. There should be ZERO increase in the number of farmer research projects for two years until the present projects are completed"

Just to make clear what I mean as it is poorly worded:

Finish a project. Only then will a new project be considered

It prevents planners committing, to say, thirteen five-year expensive projects, not knowing full well they are way over their heads unless money flows in, not anticipating inflation will creep in, but knowing farmers are legislatively obligated to pay.


View funding money as a farmers' GIFT. Not an obligation.

[gustgd]

Parsley nice to see you have not forgot me. I`ts been a while and you had quite a few points.
you brought up organ donation and gifts to the University.
use your google machine to look up admin costs in health care and the U of S.
Also nice to see you think farmers should go out and beg for money and not have to put in any ourselves.
I don`t remember did I get called a socialist in this rant yetÉ

BTW when I want to type in a question mark all I get is É. Since you have an opinion on everything how do I fix thatÉ

wmoebis
I personaly would rather see R&D to develop a better price for the product I am growing now. Like maybe some flour and pasta mills out my back door and a rail system that actually works for the industry.

I don`t want to speak for the commodity groups but I know pulse Canada, Canola Canada and the Wheat board are all working on those issues.

Often pulling in opposite directions.

Which BTW is why cottons farmer lawyer idea won`t work. We could all put in money, but who gets to decide directionÉ

Back to parsley how did you arrive at you numbers for future research and cutsÉ Are they arbitrary or did you put some thought into itÉ



I`m off to bed now, and probably won`t post until tomorrow night. I can read the posts on my bb but a proper reply on those things is tough.

Hoping to learn something new.

and here`s another stalking horse or is it a white elephant. That`s being forced on farmers because of ``consumer`` demand.

On Farm Food Safety protocols

For the record I`m against what is proposed until farmers start getting paid for the extra record keeping.
Even then I would not want to see it mandatory.

[parsley]

#1 I believe I own my body organs, it matters little what administration costs are. I should be able to gift them IF I CHOOSE.

I suppose you believe the state owns each citizen's body organs, for the reason it would save on administration costs. Presumed donors. Mandatory harvesting.

Yes, you do believe in state ownership, if this is the case. And yes, you are a socialist/communist, if this is the case.

#2 Redundancy again:

I listed four funders:

1.Farmers
2. Industry
3. Government
4. Benefactors

I also stated none of these four funders should be held for ramsom under monopoly-legislated obligation to fund.

I addressed only farmer-funding, and four points pertaining to the funding.

Farmer funded: a) Contribution Rate should not go up, for example, from 4% to 5%. b) Completion of one project before another is tackled. c)And making it clear that overspending on a project due to inflation, (like the Olympics) will not be tolerated. d) Cutback for 2 years

#3. Wheat board is working on developing a pasta plant? Lucifer.
Something you would favor?

Well, that should go over well with farmers (like David Schnell who worked so hard to value add in their communities,) that the CWB trashed for trying the same thing.

Or is the real point of the exercise to hire some Wheat Board grunts to do yet another indepth "study" followed by another "dog and pony show " travelling from community to community, followed by "CWB consulatations" , with mandatory checkoffs being spent, no, I should say wasted, on yet another parade of mumble-chant directors conducting the performance of dullminded staff putting into practice what they have yet to learn?

Staff hiring.Staff contracting.Staff paid with farmer-money. Tried and true.

#4.You question my numbers?

QUOTE "Farm debt in Canada was 16.3% above the previous five-year average, from 2003 to 2007." UNQUOTE

I figured by 2010 it is close to 20%, so I felt comfortable settling for 20%. 20% more debt should reflect 20% less spending.

You know, with 20% more debt, ...a farmer should consider one pocket is emptier when he goes to write a cheque...ever heard of that concept, gusty? The 20% is the NATIONAL guesstimate.

#5. As for your É, I'm not sure what kind of keyboard you have in your office,(Apple?) but try pressing Insert on the right hand side of your key board placed above the numeric pad. Or:

http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html

You might consider tightly binding your right hand with duct tape if you wish to permanently prevent further mistaken keyboard entries. Your choice. Nice to actually have a choice when stupid suggestions are offerred, isn't it? LOL Pars