When do we want it to keep raining?

[Hopperbin]

Or if my o9 stability is not done gotta drill them a new ass hole.

[Hopperbin]

$179 is a per acre amount. Total reference margin for 2010 divided by total seeded acres (adjusted for crop share if applicable) . You would need to have basically completed the calculations for 2009 and rolled your numbers forward allowing your 2010 reference margin to be figured out. All if this was done during my March meeting with my accountant to go throught the financial statements and plan 2010.

My accountant's firm (MNP) still prepares the forms in the original design (long format). The new short form introduced in 2007 is useless from my standpoint as it doesn't tell you anything. My agristability package includes the full application of crop production flows, prepaids, etc reference margin and eligible payment calculation and 2010's reference margin (with the assumption my farm size doesn't change). In the 2 years we have received payments, their payment estimate was within 5% or bang on. One year it took 3 attempts and letters to get the administration to include the correct people (a multi-person combined farm because we are not independent from each other and have too many transactions between us) and the right fair values for inventory.

You would think they can get things right at the gov't administration but we learned that you need to calculate the reference margin and the payment calculation otherwise you have nothing to compare to.

[Hopperbin]

Agristability only includes production related expenses:

Seed, fertilizer, chem, fuel, crop/hail insurance, Trucking of grain, selected utilities, wages to non family people plus a couple small others.

It does not include rent, leases, land taxes, interest, repairs etc. These are all variable for each farm. Remember if these costs are not included in claim years they are not included in reference margin years either and therefore so long as they are consistent from year to year, it will not help or harm you.

[Hopperbin]

Thanks Sask. but I don't agree that you need even 150 margin to cover expenses. Perhaps if your leasing a lot of big machinery. Also I know you are very happy with your accounting firm MNP. How do you calculate your fees, I would like to know how much you pay if you don't mind and do you get one fee for everything including agristability or do they charge per hour or combination. Yes a lot of MNPs accountants are farmers and are to the better for it. I am lightening up :)

[freewheat]

My margin is no where near 150 an acre. Can't be. We have only seeded 2 normal crops in the last 5 years. Carrying forward the frost nightmare of 2004, with no inventory to bring to 2005, and my margins I guess aren't really very good at all, if I need 140 an acre. Mind you, I'm talking about a completely different situation, as if I don't get anything seeded, I do not have diddly for expenses comparatively either, I suppose...

[freewheat]

I did not say I needed $150 to cover expenses although I would challenge you to look at your numbers to see if you can operate you farm for less than $250 per acre when all is included (depreciation, reasonable management wage etc)

Cash costs are one thing but overall profitability is another.

I was shown that $140 per acre reference margin would allow my operation to remain comparable to my history which has been strong and key word, stay in the black. With a excel spreadsheet tool, he showed me how quickly the impact of a lower reference margin had on the profitability of my farm and vice versa, how $180 (our 2010 actual) was a significant advantage.

I don't lease any equipment other than a few odd rental pieces, the majority of land is owned, minimal debt, spouse works so we only take about $50,000 a year from the business. The next operator will be different and it may not work.

As far as fees, its a fee per service payable as the work starts or is complete. Some years our corporations are $2000-$2500 (each), agristability is usually $1000 (each), personal tax with 2 kids is $450. I know what a few friends pay with smaller public accountants and MNP is not any more. We have good computerized records which I know helps.

The biggest difference is I make a point to get in an see my guy to go through the information. He admits to me that at times they get too busy and therefore they are not always able to do the things they want with their clients. Because he farms, May is a tough month to get together as well.

Yes, I am very pleased because I know I am getting something no one else provides or can provide. And when they can give me re-assurance as to where I stand in a year like this, its worth a few hundred bucks more.

My suggestion to anyone and you yourself, go and talk to them for an hour. They will give you that and show what they have to offer as I have had a couple friends sit with them this past year. Both of them are clients in 2010

[freewheat]

Freewheat - Are you strictly grain?

Is your application complete for 2009 and the reference margin calulated for 2010 (or has someone gave you this?)

If you only seeded 2 crops in the last 5 years was there crop insurance revenue and is it included in the right year?

If you don't get any crop seeded, yes you will have lower expenses for the claim year however that's not going to make your potential claim higher if you do not have a good margin.

Are you farming with another operation? If so, is there any benefit in combining to achieve more representive data?

Unfortunately if you faced more than a couple tough years since 2005 your margin (and crop insurance the same) will have taken a hit too. That's the unfortunate side of the program.

[Hopperbin]

I guess I try to operate pretty lean, I don't count on the main tractor blowing up in the middle of planting like last year and I don't count on the high clearance sprayer purchase in order to hire a good man that quits just before harvest starts or planting. Anyways if you got a ref margin like saskfarmer99 why even try planting anymore. Then again you don't get that ref by slacking either. There are a lot of farmers out there that have expanded because of their ref margin which increases when they take on more acres. Now we talk about a chinese bubble????

[GOODRUM]

has the 2009 's been completed or am I missing something?

[gregpet]

These are not disaster programs. Those programs are income leveling/insurance programs. We are having a natural disaster, in our case this is the third time since 2006 for us (too wet 2006, wet 2007, hail 80-100% 2008 (not disaster worthy but I thought I would just throw it in for sympathy), much wetter 2010).

We are in or will be in need of disaster relief payments.