Denial, denial, denial

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

From the other side...

We support our local community and business. Spending on farm equipment and inputs to have a clean... productive farm... can't be a bad thing.

New tech. and good productive practice encourage our next generation to become a part of the family farm.

I see the majority of the stats presented are close to reality for many farms.

Should we produce less to get more?

Is SM5 the answer?

Is the CWB?

I find it objectionable to starve people to profit on their pain.

If we do not grow the food... at a competitive price... someone else will.

High prices on wheat are the perfect example in 2008. Now we have an abundance BECAUSE of high prices.

We are dealing with food here... not cell phones or cars!

[parsley]

Don't toy.

Farmers could GIFT the entire 2010 wheat crop as food aid, to various parts of the world, only to find the poor remained hungry.

Good grief. Look at Africa's two crops/year climate and then count our frost free growing days.

The issue of starvation is a political one. Pars

[parsley]

Press release excerpt:


"Building on continued interventions at multiple government levels by Minister Ritz, the Canadian Wheat Board signed a memorandum of agreement with COFCO, China's largest government food processors, which will double wheat sales to China over recent years. The agreement to sell 500,000 metric tonnes by the end of 2011 is worth $130 million." Pars

[parsley]

"starve people"

As much as you fancy the role as a food Santa Claus, the fact is farmers cannot afford it. Nor can Canada afford subsidies.

This country carries a huge debt as well as a threatening deficit.

You want Canada to borrow yet more money so that we can continue to grow food to sell at prices that do not pay hardly the expense?

Is your benchmark for financial planning "more debt"? Pars

[wd9]

The good thing about averages is some of us are making a comfortable living farming with a couple months of hard work. If you are not making enough money, do something different.

[oneoff]

And sure enough people are doing something different; as well as earning off-farm income equal to more than what the farm returns. And further that off-farm income doesn't need depreciation subtracted from it; nor a return on equity or investment and it really is a wage which you apparently aren't getting from the farming operation.
And for every one doing much better than average there is understandably one doing much worse than average.
Its so easy to see if you have lying eyes.

[wd9]

Oneoff, are you saying farming can not be profitable? I say it can, especially if you didn't farm thru the fairy tale years and wish the good ol years would come back.

[oneoff]

It all depends if you call profitable; being reliant on government payments (aka (also known as) government subsidies; cheques that come in brown envelopes; the thousand publically paid for initiatives and programs that government dream up; ad infinitum; to address the crises and pleas that come forth every week from groups such as farmers.). And it is a sad and very true fact that earned farm net income ( after CCA; let alone a wage and some return to risk or equity is year after year stongly in the red (aka negative). Maybe not for you or for me; but it is for the two or three peers on each side of you; and above and below me etc. etc.); on average.
Of course there are exceptions; but if you are real smart you will tell the biggest tales of woe to your friends and neighbors. There are very very few that can handle any of your personal successful moments. And if you continue to be successful you will find out that you literally don't fit in with the majority. This is especially true at the local "free" coffee shops.
A response would be appreciated.

[wd9]

Would i be brash to say that i really don't care about those "peers" on either side of me but rely on their lack of education and or little understanding of plant physiology which sets a yield level of 'what the market will bear' so i can be profitable? The sooner farmers realize we are in competition with each other the better you will become.

Do you really think Bayer and Monsanto sit over coffee and whine about how tough it is out there? NO! they come up with products to better the competition, other input companies, and convince you the farmer to buy from them.

If you don't think farmers are in competition, go to a land auction some day.

Farm at the correct end of the bell curve and you will be profitable. Its true in every business. If you can't then do something esle.

And no, i can not remember a gov't payout rec'd but they inherently exist and are available to all farmers. I never seem to qualify for much of them tho. That is unfair competition that i am unable to work around.

Interesting you said me and you but not our peers. No one admits to not being profitable.

[oneoff]

The acid test might very well be if the majority of people now care about anything other than their own self serving interests ahead of everything else in this life.


How many of us have even gotten off the fence and supported a relatively unpopular position because they knew it was really the right stand to take and was an important issue to many others; even though it hardly impacted the self centered individual at the time and further there was an obvious danger that it could bite them through repercussions.

If you don't know what my point is; then it is a strong symptom that you are one of the many who put themselves first; care nothing about others and should do extremely well; as measured in some ways. Others will however refer to you by an appropriate knickname; and even though you will never know it you will be remembered (or quite quickly forgotten) in a much different way than those who conducted themselves in a much different way.

[wd9]

Running a business is just that - running a business to ensure it is profitable over the long term. I am profitable, I pay my taxes so I do my part in terms of supporting those who need government support to make ends meet. Oh, did I mention my partner works off farm, which aids in our success? We do what works for our business model so we can live the lives we want - where we have time to volunteer in our community, our school, and our college. Is it so horrible to be proud of who we are and to not join the misguided mission of ensuring EVERY single farmer is profitable in this country? Profitable is relative - people need to define what their individual goals are and strive towards them instead of doing things the exact same way over and over again and expecting a different result.

Being profitable on my own farm, which allows me to be part of my own community through time, donations, etc is very different than me volunteering to be less profitable to ensure that every other farmer makes the same. Communism never works with humans so define your benchmarks and figure out a way to get there.

[oneoff]

We all live in the same universe; but do not agree on where the center of that universe is or should be. Your model of what has worked personally may well be a model that should pushed to be duplicated so you are surrounded by successful farmers in your community. If however this model can't be duplicated because there aren't enough struggling farmers that can be fed off and absorbed from to reach that goal; then the plan is only getting rid of your neighbors and not attempting to pull all the community to higher standards and averages.

[wd9]

Big assumption on your part that my surrounding farmers are not also competitive. We have a marketing and research club which pushes our skills and profits greater then each of ours alone. Stop telling me what my business model and community is made up of by your assumptions. You have said nothing of your own innovations or sense of community but just that all farmers should be the same. Sorry, but that is bullshit and unrealistic.

[wd9]

Since this thread is about denial, i think oneoff you would be in serious denial to think all farmers will be profitable no matter what you propose. To do so would make it even easier for our expenses to be driven to the zero line of what the market would bear and none of us would make money. Maybe the CWB should market everything, rent every acre exactly the same, and we all get exactly the same price. But even then a group will make money and a group will lose money and everything in between.

[oneoff]

Its damn easy to follow what is best for me #1. Statscan doesn't compile statistics solely from telephone interviews. When the farm income figures from everyone who submitted a tax form give a set of data that indicates farmers aren't making significant revenue (or maybe none at all) off their farm production); how could anyone only see that averages are meaningless because they are personally satisfied with their individual lot.
I've always avoided pointing fingers directly; but one necessarily has to have the right to make general comments; or else you are left with nothing to focus your remarks on.
For those who are confident in never having to rely on society; continue to look after yourself. You are only fooling yourselves to think that the center of the universe even knows you exist. You are just as dependent and insignificant as anyone else.