AgriInvest running late also

[Hopperbin]

That way we can buy the banks.
You know BMO shares are up 242 percent in 10 years.
Plus they pay a div. of 4.63 percent per year.
So the div. from a 10 year ago investment is actually paying an interest of 11.2 percent today not counting the share price increase.
Quarterly compounding the dividend and together with the share price increase the gain becomes over 500 percent in 10 years. Going back another 10 years and the gain is even better.
A one hundred thousand investment would become half million in 10 years left untouched. I own this stock of course. I would love my agriinvest account to be gaining like this and why can't we? We need some changes, lets all call our mlas tomorrow today.

[Hopperbin]

Skhadenuf that would more than cover flood losses providing we are also not taxed at the 45 percent rate like we are now with investments like that. That is what we are taxed at Sask99 is it not for an investment account gain in a corporation?

[Hopperbin]

As I understand it: Agriinvest income is treated as regular income in corporations even though by definition it is considered investment income. Therefore it would be taxed at 15.5% (Sask rates)

[skhadenuf]

Aren't we getting 100 percent interest on day one. Interest should depend somewhat on what is the purpose of the agri-invest accounts is it for an extra week holidays or is it for retirement or is it for when you have lost your crop?
As far as the 200 or 250 an acre, guys that have had the good fortune of good weather have margins of 150 to 200 bucks that means above your allowable costs whether seeding cost or summerfallow cost. So under this cais system some that had good luck are getting a bonus extended holidays paid for by taxpayers and guys that had the flood before are guaranteed only the unseeded amounts that aren't going to go far keeping anyone going. That's why I hate to say it but agree with Mr. Lingenfelter when he says there should have been a higher payout under the unseeded and flooded out acres because he knows that will mean more money for those who have had the misfortune of poor weather in the past and lower margins.
Considering what has occurred and what will be the result this fall what should have occurred in those super hot and fast meetings is the cais program shut down and everyone guaranteed like I said 200 to 250 an acre for seeded and 150 or so for unseeded.
We had a 15 dollar cover crop program for flooded acres and the ndp gave 10 last time so 25 bucks, our superfast meetings resulted in a name change to agri-recovery and 5 bucks more an acre, just to save face that there was actually a so called agri recovery in place, but will it really get to anyone quicker than it did last time? and it is still not gonna cut it for those farmers in the areas that flooded out or any other losses before.

[skhadenuf]

As I sit here in line at LD in Tisdale, on the personal side it would be taxed at whatever personal rate you are in. A key thing to remember is that because it is investment income, the AgriInvest/NISA income is not to be reported on the farming statement for individuals. This would create additional CPP contributions at 9.5% which to some would be "additional tax"

[skhadenuf]

Remember that those with the high reference margins for Agristability are also highly profitable and highly taxable. Your comments about extended holidays, fancy trucks and equipment are because they can afford it anyways.

I do agree that something needs to change in the system to deal with the multiple loss years you are experiencing but I don't agree with setting a bar at $200 or $250 per acre. Setting the bar that high means non production costs (repairs, debt, land rent) are now part of your guaranteed income. What do you think rent, land prices, inputs and equipment prices will be then?

Even if there was such a program, what do you think is a fair price to pay for this level - 30%?. If you are a multi year claim candidate will the price you pay go up? I have no insurance brokerage experience but if we pay 6-12% for hail insurance which is a freak of nature, I have a feeling the premium will be exceptionally high for coverage that we can control parts of the outcome.

If Crop insurance took out your last 3 years of 5 that were basically 0 production as you claim, would that provide a reasonable base?

[Hopperbin]

In all fairness agristability should have the option to go back 10 years and take out a top and bottom possibly. If that does not give a farmer a margin then they should not be farming.

[Hopperbin]

Sask99 I just wish we could have a self directed investment account for agri invest, it would provide a better return than .6 percent per year from the banks now offering. Currently it is not an option. Yes agriinvest money is taken out at what ever tax rate you are in in that year as it is just claimed as income. Currently though a corp investing in self directed accounts pay only the high rate on those accounts as they are classed as passive income, just the same as if the corp cash rented out land, it is passive income.

[Hopperbin]

More investment options would be nice, but again, how much administration does a program want to have to handle all this.

I suggest, make your deposit, withdraw it right away.

You can make 6% or more applying it against intermediate debt on equipment. Do not use against land debt unless it pays off the loan.

If its a corporation, use your shareholder loan to pull out and invest it where you wish. If no shareholder loan, borrow from your company, repay the offside balance before each year end or take a dividend/mgt fee.

[skhadenuf]

so why are you guys with the good weather history getting 150,200,250 bucks guarantee margin for next to nothing, while others are getting nothing. once again you prove my point, you don't want anyone else to have 200 but you sure want to take it for next to nothing. Get rid of all that bullshit administration and that would pay a long ways into premium, As far as that bullshit line that costs would go up well are they going to go up for you guys with those margins? whether the money comes from the crop or a program if someone is taking advantage of that then that needs to be handled, you can't just say oh no payments because it raises cost of things, that just proves that the market we function in is fuxxed.