Hows your "F - - KING" Day going!

[DogPatch]

Youshers...... obviously an epidemic of Cabin fever or male PMS,

Turn off your Blackberries and try and have a good weekend!

[freewheat]

BGMB Said:::::

"And one more thing I think the gov should only support farmers who have shown they can make money farming. That how agristability works. Have a good history, then a bad year, bang... you get a pmt.

Have 5 shitty years in a row guess what you either have extremely bad luck or you are a shitty farmer either way you get no money. Enough of this ad hok 30$ bullshit. In our area the only guys getting the 30 bucks are dog Fu&*ers"


First off, Welcome Klause!

Now for bgmb’s comment. There are some vast areas which have had poor weather for multiple years, that agrisnot will not help. As far as guys not needing 30 bucks, or us being that despicable phrase you stated us to be, think again. We could not seed because it was impossible, again. We probably will not seed again next year. How would your marvelous management be with no crop 4 out of 6 years? Do you think a few thousand good managers should be left to bankruptcy due to weather? Or should we just abandon some of the highest historic producing grainland in western Canada and call it a marsh? Think before you blab.
When is whoever runs and moderates this site going to grow some and toss out all these guys who have to swear to get their point across because their brain can’t function using gentleman’s plain English. It is getting tiring. If you need to spout off crap like a little high schooler to get your point across, you don’t need to be on here.

[stoopidbastard]

Hey klause

apparently being as happy as you can when things
turn to shit aint the way things are done round here,
interesting place, good luck to all, it sure sounds like
some of you need it, we are having and average
season here and we are lucky

SB

[bgmb]

Freewheat,

Your right that was a bit rude, but i still stand by my point that agristability is the best program out there as far as rewarding good farmers with money when things turn bad.

The only farmers in our area who are getting the 30 bucks are guys who had twice as much time as they needed to get a crop in but chose to sit and wait. then it turned wet and now they are getting 80 bucks an acre. And its the same guys over and over again.

I don't know why that money would even be available in our area.

[fjlip]

Where is your area? Sounds like its low risk and drier than mine. What is land selling for?

[bgmb]

land is all over the map anywhere from 400-1000 bucks in the last 5 years.

you want cheap land? first thing to do is get rid of the 80$ too wet payment

[riders2010]

So for all those guys that had great crops all along and now many of them might not have any crop did they all of a sudden become stupid managers? No it's the weather that will determine how much income or not in the next 2 to 4 weeks, you could be staring at bumper crop but if no harvest 0.

For Klause I am truly glad you are happy!

And there is no point trying to guess your financial state because there are 100 and 1 variables even if we knew most of them. But in general at 70 % coverage and 3 years crop loss, if I know your area you had a few losses prior to this also so let's say 5 losses, not sure if your crop insurance is like sask but we have 10 year average 5 years of loss means coverge at 50% of what you grow and 70% of that 50% gives you 35% roughly income, of course take off your premium which will of course be high with that many years of loss. In just my opinion you must have absolutely nil for cost because living off 35% income not sure where anyone could keep going like that.

No wonder you are not in agrivation, it would only be a cost of accountants for you or your time if you do it yourself, right or wrong?

Those crops that you lost was it because you were a shitty manager or the weather?

Now having said this, interested to know Guys that had good weather and therefore income 5 years in a row prior to this year and now some will have 0 income, do you feel they deserve (because they paid income tax, LOL LOL LOL or otherwise) to be subsidized because they had good weather and you didn't?

Were they better managers than you to have a crop when you didn't?

Do you think those that have the margins in agrivation did they all of a sudden become poor managers because they are gonna have no income this year off the crop itself?

I realize you likely have a different perspective on the be happy thing and may not care if they get subsidized, because you are closer in time in terms of your family leaving a very corrupt and dangerous country, so your views would be more that it's just nice not to get shot at understandable. But some of us feel we're past that and expect that as normal, so let's get on with dealing with the level of corruption happenning here.

Your parents I assume left because they were in a system where only the priveleged with the inside of the gov and the crooks prospered and survived. If you spoke up you what got shot at?
Why is it wrong for us to say look just because of weather people are going to get and I am not sure everyone is aware but if they actually pay it there is going to be some massive agrivation payments to people that have had good luck 4 of 5 years prior (take the lag year out)this is taxpayer money and others are gonna get none.

I spoke with our accountant and of course didn't provide names but in those lentil areas there are guys with above 200 margins, some of them seeded very little. So let's say 50 bucks of allowable expenses they potentially could recieve 250 bucks x 2000 acres = 500,000 bucks and you will recieve nothing out of that program do you think that is right? I think your farm was 2000 acres.

Sask99 you still haven't told us what was your secret special deal with big sky that you came out so much better than all those other stupid farmers that got next to nothing. Sounds like the same secret deal you get from agrivation.

[rookie]

Some folks out there in cyber space will use there insults and foul language in the good times too ( saying the tough times are making me do it... tell that to your doctor...)

Just be careful doing it, its a bigger window into who you really are than you obviously think.

Some of you tipped your cards ... all the nice chat now won't cover what lies beneath and the social skills you actually possess.

This was all over some guy putting his opinion forward politely and several jumping all over him and with some offensive terms.

Use the rural issue page if you want to cry like children with violent characteristics, or ask the moderators to create one just for you and your friends.

Think I am full of it, go print this debate off and show it to someone else like your doctor, it just might get you happy pills or free counseling.

And if you want a piece of me, sent your name and address to the moderator, when they verify its true, I'll give them mine so you can have it, then, you can see what your made of ....

We are all facing dire times ahead and look to these pages for answers, incite and a little coffee shop socialization.
Divide and fall, or unite. This web site shows how big your world just got.

Oh and have a good day, the suns out. Good luck this fall.

[riders2010]

"you want a piece of me send your name" oh my isn't that mature, you should write a book on schitzophrenia. What's that saying never ask a question you don't know the answer to, never invite someone you don't know who's gonna show up!
The problem is some of you don't like when your extreme left and extreme right views are on display. So you avoid the questions and views and attack the language and on that language you are right it shouldn't happen, sorry but out in the farming community I'm sure you never hear those words, no,

tractor and combine buried, will you hear

My dear hired man, could please walk slowly over to that nice looking but quite costly in my opinion tow rope that is likely 50 nice feet too short, so that we could attach it directly to the lovely frame provided and we could gently pull this fantastic earth crawling combine out so that we can harvest this tiny but oh so thankful crop that sadly is feed.

Or would it be more common, GO get that f'n s--t rope that I got f-----d on bring it here clamp it anywhere on this g-d d----ed f------g combine so we could finish this s--t crop that's only costing f-----g money to harvest.

And yes out in the field is different than here.

[checking]

Freewheat.

I realize that I should not ask questions to perhaps answer your question, but this seems appropriate.

You asked the question: should you (we) abandon some of the highest historic producing land in western Canada, and just call it a marsh?

Well, what's your alternative should the weather not change? and

Should the public be required to support your area until the historic production returns?

[riders2010]

Apologize for interrupting, under that question why should taxpayers be supporting all the areas at all this year if the crop is lost, is it fair only the guys that have the margins will be reimbursed? what if their areas go 5 years in a row with no crops and it could happen?, freewheat and our area grows next 5 year bumper crops should the rest be hung out to dry?

What is the best land now? The answer is the land that is recieving the best weather but that changes every year and I think if we look at the last 5 years extremes are becoming the norm. If there is a program shouldn't it be designed to respond to that?
Under the current scenerio the margin guys will be taking over many in the no margin areas is that a good program design? Some of those margin guys are thinking short term, they could be where we are at in a few years, what would they think then?

Not supporting farms will lead to eventually only a handfull of farms is that what you see as the answwer checking?


Not answering for freewheat I was jus curious as to your answers.

[Klause]

riderfan2010,

<em>And there is no point trying to guess your financial state because there are 100 and 1 variables even if we knew most of them. But in general at 70 % coverage and 3 years crop loss, if I know your area you had a few losses prior to this also so let's say 5 losses, not sure if your crop insurance is like sask but we have 10 year average 5 years of loss means coverge at 50% of what you grow and 70% of that 50% gives you 35% roughly income, of course take off your premium which will of course be high with that many years of loss. In just my opinion you must have absolutely nil for cost because living off 35% income not sure where anyone could keep going like that. </em>

Where did I say we had 3 year crop loss? I'm not in Laurier/Ste Rose/Ste Amelie - I was using them as an example as I have good friends that farm there. For us, 2005 was wet. We only had half seeded... was a poor crop but breakeven. 2006 was awesome. 2007 was good yields, but meh... had issues with tough grain at harvest. 2008 was wet, but we got most seeded. 2009, same deal. Most seeded, excellent yields... Gotta remember, MB is not SK. We are in an area that is wet and we factor in % that can't be seeded for whatever reason. Doesn't mean crop that did go in will suck.

I don't quite gather your calculations with crop insurance, but that isn't anything close to here...

I'm covered for $215/ac on my canola this year... That's my IPI * MASC's average yields * $9.20(I think.. around the $9, don't have sheet in front of me) * 70%

For instance, this year canola yields will be 10 - 15 in the area... that goes for everyone, including me. My IPI won't drop because that's your yield vs. the rest's yield. I think we're pretty fortunate with our system.


As far as the unseeded acres, I did not claim them in years past. Only this year because so much is unseeded.

<em>No wonder you are not in agrivation, it would only be a cost of accountants for you or your time if you do it yourself, right or wrong? </em>

No accountants... I've gone through the calculations myself. I'd have a margin, but I do NOT like the program, and I do not support government stimulus in this form... It's a socialist program designed to reward those that are either incapable, or unwilling to protect their own operations. For someone like you, or the guys in St. Rose that have had numerous poor years, you have no margins, you get no money. The ones that had bumper crops for the past few years, and this year have a poor one, are getting big money - when they shouldn't. If you can't weather one bad year, then you should re-evaluate your operation and make changes that you can. I don't see an ITstability, or TrainStability, or PotashStability, or OilStability, or FishStability program - do you? Why is agriculture different? You want to get rid of high rents, high used equipment? Get rid of all forms of these bailout programs. When there is a disaster - provide aid for that. Do not provide aid for "a poor year". That is why I do not take part in it.


<em>Those crops that you lost was it because you were a shitty manager or the weather? </em>

As they say, hindsight is always 20/20. Looking back on this season, I could have done a few things differently, perhaps chiseled some fields instead of no-tilling into them, but all in all 95% is due to bad weather. I can control inputs, seeding rates, seeding depth, pests, and disease (to an extent). I can't control the weather

<em>Now having said this, interested to know Guys that had good weather and therefore income 5 years in a row prior to this year and now some will have 0 income, do you feel they deserve (because they paid income tax, LOL LOL LOL or otherwise) to be subsidized because they had good weather and you didn't? </em>

As above

<em>Were they better managers than you to have a crop when you didn't? </em>

This year the only "good" crops are those on fields that are high, and have perfect drainage. And those "good" crops would be considered poor in a normal year.

<em>Do you think those that have the margins in agrivation did they all of a sudden become poor managers because they are gonna have no income this year off the crop itself? </em>

No. However, if they had good crops in years past they should have a slush fund. Unfortunately, and I know of a few around here, they spent the money on new equipment and pickups, vacations, etc. and have no contingency. Most of these guys also bought land at 50% or more over average market value. These operations shouldn't get subsidized... they will never learn to manage properly if the government keeps handing out taxpayer's money.

Before someone accuses me of being greedy, I would most likely be getting quite a bit from AgStab. if I was in the program this year... It's a matter of ideology more than anything... We buy with money, not debt. I don't buy new, I buy used (but in good shape). I don't rent land for exorbitant values, but I pay my rent every year in full by the deadline - and did the same thing this year.

<em>I realize you likely have a different perspective on the be happy thing and may not care if they get subsidized, because you are closer in time in terms of your family leaving a very corrupt and dangerous country, so your views would be more that it's just nice not to get shot at understandable. But some of us feel we're past that and expect that as normal, so let's get on with dealing with the level of corruption happenning here.

Your parents I assume left because they were in a system where only the priveleged with the inside of the gov and the crooks prospered and survived. If you spoke up you what got shot at? </em>

It's hard to explain if you're not there... You are thinking of a different kind of corruption... The government was not evil. Ok, I'll give you an example.

Al`Queda starts blowing up cars, buildings, etc. in Canada. They systematically infiltrate the local and state and federal law enforcement agencies... Now start picturing what this would do. The country is now seen as being unstable. No one will lend money, and the country is forced to pay high interest on its bonds... in effect printing paper. Inflation goes through the roof - 500% or more a month. Banks go broke, call in on paid for loans... Your family members get kidnapped for ransom... The governemnt runs out of options, and starts confiscating your production to feed the population... See what I'm getting at here?

I'm not saying Canada is the same, but I'm saying we shouldn't be complacent...


<em>Why is it wrong for us to say look just because of weather people are going to get and I am not sure everyone is aware but if they actually pay it there is going to be some massive agrivation payments to people that have had good luck 4 of 5 years prior (take the lag year out)this is taxpayer money and others are gonna get none.</em>

It's not wrong to vent... but by God, every thread on here was a vent! I simply said count your blessings, it can always be worse. We're getting off-topic now, though.

<em>I spoke with our accountant and of course didn't provide names but in those lentil areas there are guys with above 200 margins, some of them seeded very little. So let's say 50 bucks of allowable expenses they potentially could recieve 250 bucks x 2000 acres = 500,000 bucks and you will recieve nothing out of that program do you think that is right? I think your farm was 2000 acres. </em>

No. It isn't right. As I've said above...


<em>Klause,

Lets be realistic there are two types of farmers on here ones who are used to making good money and supporting a family and ones who basically have nothing to lose, like you. I don't mean to be demeaning but that's the reality. 5 years ago i was in your position now i have lots to lose, guess what I'm not whining cause i got one frick of a good crop but if i didn't i sure as hell would be.

If you are happy to have shitty crops three years in a row there is something wrong with you. What are you going to say next year when its 4 in a row "oh well be happy i can go to the oil patch" I guess you aren't a farmer then you are a hobby farmer who derives most or all of his income from other sources.

guys who are whining on here are tied to their farm there is no way they could just frick off for a winter, just doesn't work when you have a big farm. Its like any other business does a grain company just close their doors for a few months cause they are having a lean year i don't think so. </em>

With all due respect, I agree. There are two types of farmers.

I will change the classifications though. There are those that, through luck, have grown large, and have become arrogant... The arrogance is masking ignorance. The other type of farmer is the one who grows his crop, follows his beliefs, is conservative, saves some money, and isn't capitalized up to the wazoo.

You think I have nothing to loose - I have no mortgage. I own half the land I farm - outright. I own my equipment - outright. I have a small operating loan and input financing, and two years to go paying off a loan from when I bought Dad out of the operation at age 16. My net worth is healthy. I have never been turned down for any credit... My credit rating is very important to me.

The farmer who has been flooded for 3 years is a poor manager. However, you, who has one bad year and is crying he needs government funds, is a good manager? Where did the profits from the past few years go? You obviously didn't save any money or forsee that anything could go wrong. That proves the opposite of what you said. Want to see a bad manager, look in the mirror.

Finally, your comment that farmers your size are tied to the farm... Tell me, if you have no crop to harvest, why are you tied to the farm? What are you doing all winter? You work in the patch, 2 weeks on, one off. Buy your inputs on the week off. If you have a bit of grain, haul it out then. Actually, one member on this board farms 8,000 acres, has a custom spraying business, and a custom seed cleaning business. He's also the manager of a drilling rig and works out in the patch all winter... Now, for my personal opinion, guys like him make people like you look like lazy whiners.

Finally, calling farmers "dog f&%$kers" is probably the most childish thing I've ever heard... Again, think you can take your opinions into a public debate with me? I can guarantee the general public won't support your view point.

I'm off... And I'll read this thread, but won't keep posting. It's a waste of time talking to people who's ears are plugged.

[riders2010]

Thanks for responding Klause that was really revealing, I've got no time to respond right now but I am anxious to and I will, I was under the impression you had lost crops and were still happy about it, You haven't lost crops so naturally what the heck would you have to complain about? You showed these dreary pictures and said I'm still happy wait til this continues for 3 more years like it did for us.

[checking]

riders2010.

I will respond to you, but I'd like to hear from freewheat. Okay.

[freewheat]

Checking, you offer some excellent questions for a right wing farmer who beleives in the marketplace, and minimal subsidization!

I do not think it would be feasible to abandon a few million acres as marsh, especially as most marshes are not slightly rolling as our country is. Too many Islands!!!

For me, my alternative if the weather does not change is to raise sheep, not grain. As far as the others in the region, they'll probably be forced to quit and move on. I am a farmer, and always will be somehow, by gum.

I do not beleive in special support by region, I frankly disagree with subsidies. If we had as I have said before, a tangible crop insurance system that was the farmers sole responsibility to pay into, and it actually provided coverage for troubles such as these, to offset the costs incurred in a 4 years in 6 flood, i would gladly pay in high premiums. Heck with agrisnot, ad hoc, etc.

Finally, I will say this again. The regulations imposed on our specific area, the regulation disallowing drainage in the Fishing slough, I mean lake drainage basin, even after the sask water study that states drainage only affects water levels by 3-6 inches, must be revoked. It is a ridiculous law, and has disadvantaged our area which is one of the forty inch of rain areas, above other areas, causing our specific area to see maybe 10 % seeded this year... To wreck a million acres of farmland to stop a 3 to 6 inch rise in lake levels in years when rainfall is 40 inches is utterly unfair, and equal to forcing me to sell my wheat to the CWB which is unjust and unfair as well as a western Canadian.

If we could drain some water away this fall, we may seed next year. If not, we're in big trouble again.

You must be in a dry area checking, as you simply have no clue about flooding. I found it to be worse than I thought when I drove my tractor out on the land for the first time this year at the end of august. I didn't get far before getting stuck: in a midslope position.

As well, when one lives in an area where the climate scores a 39 out of 40 on assessment sheets for soil/land assessment, where a crop failure had never realy occurred between settlement and 2004, one must always have a contingency, BUT not for years of difficulty. How much of your debt repayment would the 30 bucks cover? How much of your actual costs would the 47 bucks cover? And finally do you know what it costs to take care of wet ground?