Hows your "F - - KING" Day going!

[riders2010]

Rider2010

Why can't you respond post/like this consistently. Thank you for that.

My sincere appolgies for my comments against you and your family. Its not my character - definitely.

Your comments and the way presented are extremely relevant.

Again, not familiar with FCC type deals but people everywhere in every business are "leaked" info that is used to their advantage. Your situation you are describing is not/was not us.

Yes, I am in charge of finances for our operation, sorry I am interested in this stuff but someone has to take on that responsibility.

Its unfortunate your neighbor went broke because of the barns. I question how close they are operating to this point if this broke the camel's back. It could have happened to any business. We went through it with Neighbor seeds a long time ago. I totally agree its not right, rumor has it all trucks were fueled up at the co-op the day before the announcement. Again, everyone needs to move on, try and protect themselves as best they can.

I honestly feel for you if you are in an area of multi year flooding. Its hard to understand that what we see was possible but going through this year I am concerned about next spring like all on this site. It wouldn't be my character to openly call you a low life, I think you used this term in the topic about how farms manage themselves differently.

You are right that everything is a wildcard. Harvest will be a challege for all. I do need to stress that fact that everyone needs to wait until the year is done to properly evaluate their own circumstances. Some will fair better than others because of better crops, crop insurance coverages and program payments. Others may not be so lucky.

I don't mean to defend the program, I have always been trying to help others realize there are some good things about it. Many don't understand it or have any idea where they are at.

I agree somewhat that weather is the wildcard but not the only factor. There are hundreds more, luck included.

I don't tend to get caught up in politics, that's why I don't vote. I work for myself and follow the rules laid out. I definitely don't agree with auto maker bailouts and I still question the need for the CWB. On our farm, we sell CWB grains but generally not straight pool contracts. It seems to work for us. I fear that when its gone the Viterra's, ADM's and Richardson's will just step in taking the additional profit that may or may not be there without the CWB.

Agristability has the biggest admistration failure of any program ever designed. I would love to see something better. On the flipside, many producers (cornerstore/basement and stand alone accountants included) don't make an effort to ensure the program is processed accurately or have the tools/software to do so. The firm I deal with gives me that and I have not had the overpayment issues other experienced.

And for our Agristability payment for 2010, I don't think its going to be as big as you think for our farm and others with similar circumstances. Understanding this situation is the key. Yes we have a good margin and we carry maximum crop insurance and no livestock. With this and good/lucky marketing of 2009's crop or the value increase so far, our income earned for 2010 will not drop as much as you think.

Our seeded crops this year are all crop insurance yield claims and our average coverage at 80% is a bit over $200. You can't hold good crop insurance against us, its a 10yr historical ins we pay for. Even the frost of 2002 and 2004 we managed to get through with minimal claims. That's puts us in a different position then everyone else from crop insurance and Agristability's points of view. A lot of the off grade grain was held for many years and sold when prices recovered or we could blend it off. Again this was a management decision we made but helps us be in a better position.

Not everyone can be as fortunate.

Lets start off on a new topic and a new page. I enjoy good constructive and polite debate and I will contribute my knowledge if asked. Cause I'm the "nerd 99" as you once politely posted.

[riders2010]

So was this Mrs. Nerd posting this time or does Mr. Nerd have a an alter personality thing going on?

[riders2010]

Come on, that wasn't nice.

This is me, has always been the real me.

Split personality is the definition of a politician

[riders2010]

So Mrs. Nerd, Give you an example of agri-in-stability.
There is a guy near here some years back near broke as can be, had some alfalfa acres and was in bees did not make alot but had more bees than needed could not afford to seed all acres to crop so seeded more alfalfa. The way it worked out some of those recent years alfalfa and the bees went terrrific for him. By anyone I know he's the only guy with a decent margin in the area. His fields were too old and bee prices went to crap so he took almost all acres out. So now he's laughing at the guys that laughed at him, hell he was laughing at himself when he went into it that big. But now he couldn't seed an acre of crop and is out of crop insurance, going to get and this is calculated by his nerd accountant, over 600,000 to sit on his ass (backside). And fully intends to ride the margin he had from the alfalfa, hoping he cannot seed for the next 4 years. The point is this, the weather worked for that crop, he was no brilliant manager, so is it right now for him to be an idiot and free ride the next 4 years. NO but he program will let him and countless others that got lucky, weatherwise.

At the start of the year did you know what the best crop to seed was? All the best market managers Oh no don't seed canary, lentils, flax no way too much and cannot get rid of it. Look at what has happenned that's what we all should have seeded. The point is that program is being run under the myth that it's management as the factor and if you don't have a margin poor manager, well it's a factor but no where near what the weather dictates. Those people with margins better be aware that the margins follow the good weather if you are into crap for the next 3 or 4 years your eventually into what many of us are into, and when you have an additional loss look out.

I noticed how you purposefully excluded livestock from anyone that has a margin. This program is one of the biggest factors as to why so many have left that industry. It used to be and should be that a mixed farm be more stable but because assistance was based on a complete unit as apposed to splitting livestock from grain no assistance basically at all to anyone with a mixed farm. That's totally bullshit and a major step backwards.

So the term agristability is anything but stability. It should be called the Expensively Administered Moving Weather Lottery program.

The grain sector is heading directly to where the cattle sector is, and this program is perpetuating it.
but that is the goal of the Conservative government because all they are about is total control by those that buy them off.

I respect your comments on the cwb issue. I do understand but not agree on some levels the reason why the wheat boarders think the way they do. They are thinking not just about wheat but in their mind it's the last stand of farmers against the corporate raping that no one can argue exists. Trouble is in that stand you have to have us the customer recieving at least the prices available on the current open market and available without a penalty fee when you want your money. If they would use the wheat supply they have to get a better price instead of well I don't even know what the hell to call it when you sell at a discount all the time.

The conservatives are using the faults of the cwb issue and gun control as a smokescreen to hide their real agenda of killing off farms to the point where there business buddies control it all.

The liberals too stupid to point this all out clear enough.

We the farmers are too stupid to see the big picture and are looking too much and always at the immediate problem, and have bought into the idea that the more neighbors fail the easier it is for me to get bigger and efficient. Yes in some cases but only if you get the weather no matter what size. Giving our votes away for free we are idiots. Look at the programs the Quebec farmers have, are they backwards not progressive no they are just not only thinking of themselves there is an actual plan there.

[riders2010]

Having said the above maybe we can get to 200 hundred posts. What is the record. Maybe some more good tunes supplied by Cotton AKA Burbert.

[cottonpicken]

You really think im burbert?

Polar opposite idealogies,trust me you have more in
common.

[riders2010]

No! Bad humour I guess. and NO to the second part

[bucket]

riders2010 said

"The liberals too stupid to point this all out clear enough. "

The liberals are in on this gig. Read the posts about who is investing in one earth farms. Paul Martin, who when finance minister, cut ag spending and could care less about farmers in general is putting alot of money into a large corporate farm under the disguise of helping first nations.

[bucket]

First, call me names, won't be responding (maybe that's what you want)

The rest of your comments, again, very constructive and valid points for some of them.

You may get the last last on your neighbor. This is an easy one and I am guessing its not an accountant doing his projection. Would love to know who made this projection, definitely not MNP

There is no way this guy will receive this kind of payment. 1st, with all of the details its impossible for me to give a something concrete but I will try based on what you described.

a) Key words, took acres of alfalfa out of production. Alfalfa is not classified as crop acres but in the forage or forage seed categories depending on the year. The structure change formula for these crops is huge (available online). You said he took his acres out, so now a different classification. I think this will cut his reference margin to about 25% of what it was. That's the significance between the 3 crop classifications

b) Not in crop insurance. The program will include the $50 ($47.50) as 2010 claim year income anyway even though he never received it.

c) my guess would be less than 10% of what you are saying he is going to get.

Although the program is not perfect, it tries hard to eliminate situations like this. Again, it comes down to how the applications are filed and if they are filed properly. There is fraud potential, but that is also available and present in income tax, crop insurance, day to day shopping, need I go on.

The issue with livestock is an issue. I cannot comment on the long term low margin issues with hogs and cattle. All I can say is I hope the legal case going on in the other post is successful.

On a mixed farm I have another opinion. You talk about the mixed farm enterprise offset or pooling of income and therefore limiting assistance. This is true but in reality you are not losing as much money as you would be potentially if you were only in one enterprise. Somehow finding a way to separate the 2 would be best however, how much administration, bookkeeping do you want in a program.

You continue to point fingers at governments. Ever seen the movie "Brewster's millions" with Richard Prior. I would love to see a choice on the ballot "none of the above". I would like to know which party you think has your vote?

I don't believe it is physically possible for a government to satisfy everyone or to deal with unprecidented issues the farms are going through now or your situation which is even worse. Like I said, I keep informed, but I don't get too caught up in politics and I think my business is better because of it.

Thank you for your recognition of my CWB comments. As I sat back this summer and watched some of you (S3 the biggest) complain about the current spot price in the US and how the CWB was so far behind the pace I kept wondering...would many of us had more than 20% of our 2009 crop left to sell when the market rallied? Again, I'm not defending it, I would like to see it go, more because I am tired of the debate of who is for and who wants it gone. It probably is time to change as well, looking at all the other things that have advanced in society as well.

As far as your comments about Quebec, well I didn't phone anyone in the referendum a number of years ago. I welcome those that want to be a part of Canada but have no time for those that don't. Until Gilles falls and bumps his head and loses his mind (hmm, that must have happened) it will never go away.

I don't have time for this today. Going to try and continue swathing what is there. The lovely frost this morning will make for an enjoyable fall

[riders2010]

Took alfalfa seed acres out and into crop so he's not changing his structure at all. Alfalfa seed and bees income is not allowable income? I'm not an accountant but maybe going from alfalfa to grain acres is why the margin is that good.
He has the margin forms guys have seen it and that's what it is or they screwed up he'll get a payment and then have to pay it back.

Regardless, that situation could apply to lentils canola any crop, someone could ride out the next 4 years and be an idiot or a crook, or both.

Bucket your exactly right on the one earth farms deal. but no program has ever been demolished as bad as these guys in power now, their changing formulas, deadlines and penalties etc. has made a crap based program worse that's all.

[riders2010]

But he is changing his acres, big time. Alfalfa seed, Alfalfa forage and bees income is allowable income but it is in a different basket of crops. (there are 7 of them - Crops, forage, Herbs & Spices, forage seed, Bean, Veggies, and Organic)

Although the total acres do not change, the type of acres change. There is a benchmark (BPU) that is used in the structure change for each of 7 groups of acres. Because he went out of forage to crops he will have a huge structure down - trust me, there is no way the adminstration will miss this one. This would be a perfect example why someone would receive and overpayment letter down the road.

If you do not have a change in the type of acres, the program uses your individual results for your structure change (called a ratio method)

You say he has the margin forms. The best he could have is his fee letter or the 2009 calculation from the program. This is going to be based on what information they have which is 2009 and prior, not 2010 actual. It will be adjusted significantly when he files next year.

In this circumstance, absolutely no one will be able to ride the wave for 4 years.

Going from Lentils to Canola is not the same as this situation. Those crops are classified in the same group.

A better example is normal crops switching to organic. To you they may seem the same because its the same dirt. However the program views them totally opposite. Non purebred cattle to purebred another example, they are not the same and are not valued the same.

After explaining this can you start to understand the differences that can come about in the information provided, information entered on the forms and the processing of them. There can be huge differences for and against the producer.

[riders2010]

Mrs. nerd we know the program, what you just described is all the if and what and if and what that this bullshit program is all about.
Thanks again he has his margin in his hand but no that's not his margin it's the secret after they calculate it margin. And as I said one of the firms that does some of the instructing around did the calculation for him. He listenned to Ritz went and had it done and that is what it is. That's a real great program for accountants isn't it. He had acres of crop also. Ritz your boss told everyone go get it figured out well people are and it's going to be the biggest shit show in the country when all this crap hits the fan.

Thanks for admitting that in the lentil and canola any grain example you can hose the program to the ground for years. nevermind dealers writing their own expenses up or down to suit the program.

And by the way look at your previous post about ld and hauling your grain. you and your mate or other self need to start talking to each other or yourself to get it straight.

lol You think i needed to phone dreyfuss to know who you are. lol lol
we knew exactly who and where you are?

Oh and thanks for calling me a dog-----shows what you think of people that having a tough go of it. Exactly the opinion of the kind of people working in the office(government).

Get a kick out of some crying about the wet and then next day they are combining, we cannot even walk our fields never mind put equipment on it and that likely on some won't be till freeze up.

Any way go move some more grain from 2009 around again that stuff must be polished to a shine from all that movement. LOL

I thank you again for assisting me in my message. Gotta go pull something that's stuck again lol

[riders2010]

Sorry, you and your friend don't know the program.

Your friend and your described situation will not happen.

Let me know a year from now when your friend, doesn't receive the $600,000.

And you and LD don't know who I am! Sorry

[JDGreen]

Hey Saskfarmer my kids kids are waiting for the day our farm no longer has to deal with FCC.. Maybe if they are as smart as you they will start with a big pile of inherited paid for land. God its tough farming when the first 20 quarters get rammed up your arse (sarcasm off) Think about what you say man. You are describing a 100 year operation which is not apples to apples for most on this site i would wager to bet. Try to figure this out.. Start with nothing and then come yap to the rest of us in 20 years.. See what ya have then. This is one of the most glaring differences in agriculture today. If i think of the 10 most succesfull operations in our area today, they all have one thing in common. INHERITANCE..

[JDGreen]

Well JD, sorry but when the 2 dad's quit farming they each had 3 quarters. We bought those all and added another 50. No inheritance here, we've just been fortunate and done well. I'm sorry you feel that way but guaranteed others have done the same.