Next problem! Desiccating!

[jensend]

furrow we get better water absorption because we rotationally graze and hold up water from running. we've got the evidence all around us. zerotill is great in dry country and this year is the exception. our sloughs fill from the neighbouring grainland and we have land in a drainage project. since we went to grass we contribute nothing to the flow in that ditch and actually intercept from upstream. the only ponding we get these days is on freshly grazed paddocks that we take down pretty hard in the fall.

[grassfarmer]

SF3, I farmed in a 70 inch annual rainfall area for 20 years and my family for 7 generations before that so don't tell me what wet weather is.
There is growing evidence that the active ingredient of Roundup is a carcinogen.

[ado089]

jensend et.al.,

You better some more homework. Zero till mimicks the soil physics and chemistry of native prairie. Reducing tillage increses soil aggregation and microbial activity. The result of this is increased infiltration, higher organic matter levels, improved pH buffering ability and better aration. Intensive grazing rotations will do more to create compaction than any next generation farming practice. Each step a cow makes rusults in about 23lbs/sqin of preasure, we're in lower than that in the lbs/sqft. Back to my min till argument evidence supporting this fact is that the Palliser expedition determinded that most of the prairies including the Parkland unsuitable for settlement due to a lack of surface water. With tillage came sloughs and potholes. Since min-till started run-off has been greatly reduced and most water bodies have disapeared or been drasticly reduced. This year farming practices, no matter what they are, aren't the problem. The problem is 200-500% more rain than average.

As for the Roundup B.S.... I have no doubt they've found the active ingredient in the north sea. It's SALT!!!

I don't think anyone should get any money above and beyond their crop insurance or Agristab or whatever other B.S. programs are going but you clowns need to get your poop in a group before spouting off about us stupid, environment destroying grain farmers.

FAIL

[SASKFARMER3]

S0 grassfarmer your family must have farmed for 350 years in jolly old england. Well our neighbors moved her 10 years ago and this morning they said this is way worse than home. Maybe since its been 350 years since you been home you should check your facts. The round up bs your spouting yea that's a good one.

[jensend]

ado come and look at the sloughs on my grass and the neighbouring zero till. which would closer mimic native prairie - a drill or my perennial forages? and yeah my cows walk on the land. they aren't getting stuck and now this last week the ground is softening up but even that slows the flow of water with indentations and a rougher surface. they are also fracturing the surface so it absorbs water there. the machinery manufacturers are selling you a line along with the drill. zero till will quickly absorb a limited amount of water and after that it runs. that's what happens when you concentrate o.m. in the top inch. under that it compacts more. this year is showing zerotill is a dryland strategy. do you really think a crop growing for ninety days out of 365 is mimicking native grasses? an extensive root system will do more to reduce compaction than any grain farming practice short of deep ploughing. i'm sure you have higher organic matter levels in the top inch or two because you aren't putting anything any deeper but i doubt your a and b horizons have any more o.m. than other methods. you've been sold a method of production and now you're addicted to glyphosate and fertilizer. ever wonder why 'crop protection' products are all poisonous?

[jensend]

calling grassfarmer an englishman! i'm leaving now.my wife asked a scot if he was from wales. i ran far and fast.

[fjlip]

Took a chemical safety class, learned table salt has a higher LD50 number, it is MORE toxic to humans that glyphosate, and we have that "poison" on our tables? How toxic is pure alcohol? Ya, try drink seawater with NO roundup in it. The point was that everything comes down to "dilution of toxicity", there is NO zero % possible in the environment.

[ado089]

I've seen non inversion deep tillage do far more for pasture than any crop field. Cows cause compaction. Tillage causes a plow pan because the soil structure is broken resulting in the micro-pores being plugged with fine soil particles causing a plow pan. You are correct that there is a stratification of O.M. near the surface but that's present in grass land as well. But what do you think is happening when a crop take CO2 out the air and put is towards root growth? O.M. builds in the b and c horizon as well. Soils took thousands of years to develop and were destroyed in a mere 10's of year of intensive tillage, starting with the removal of sod to build homes. The reality is that undisturbed, even by cattle, native prairie is ideal for water management but saying tillage is the answer is a short visioned, ill-logiced sing of ignorance. Any given soil has a water holding capacity, when it's full, it's full. Disturbing may result in a short term drying of the suface but that's where it ends.

If you want to go down the the chemicals are all poissons route I could argue that eating beef increase your risk of colon cancer and exposes you to e.coli and other nasty things like BSE. Not to mention the contamination of water with phosphates,antibiotics and bacteria.

Just becasue you're standing in shit doesn't mean you need to throw it.

[jensend]

i'm just tired of all the complaining because this year doesn't suit the preferred method of farming. made the point that grain gets compensation; others don't. the private golf course operator doesn't get a handout for a wet summer. the dirt work contractors are having a lousy summer too. the best preventive measure for soil compaction is a healthy root system and that's in properly managed perennials. having cattle on a piece of land for six or eight days out of the year ensures the plants recover and regenerate a root system. annuals don't. they grow any significant roots for about sixty days out of the year. if you want to mimic perennial prairie the annuals don't cut it. as far as poisons go you can compare whatever but man has been eating beef for centuries but only using these chems for a few decades and i'll take my chances on good grassfed beef. did the grainfarming thing for thirty five years including continuous crop zero till high inputs. my land absorbs more water now.

[fjlip]

I was thinking along those lines, you said it first. Toxins from the environment are concentrated in the fat of any living thing, therefore in animal fat, that we eat with meat.
The dilution I mentioned is very obvious comparing cows in a pasture, little impact, 10000 in a feed lot, off the scale water pollution and toxic odors.

[jensend]

well if my neighbours wouldn't drift their spray onto my grass my beef would be even safer.

[grassfarmer]

Folks, there's way more in Roundup than salt.
Try this:

Product: ROUNDUP
Active ingredient: GLYPHOSATE 41%
Type: HERBICIDE, (Systemic)
Other ingredients: 59% includes polyethoxethyleneamine (POEA) and isopropylamine (amount undisclosed); identity of remaining ingredients withheld by manufacture as trade secrets.

How many of the unknown and undisclosed ingredients are carcinogens?