CETA

[charliep]

Apologize for monopolizing and taking off topic but too interesting when you start looking at the numbers.

Total Canadian cash reciepts 1988 - $22.4 bln. Realized farm income - $3.8 bln (note cash - excludes inventory adjustment). Farm support payments (excluding CWB final) - $2.2 bln.

Fast forward 2009 - Farm cash reciepts - $44.2 bln. Realized farm income - $3.6 bln. Farm support payments (also adjusted) - $1.8 bln.

[charliep]

Screwed up - CWB payments are included with farm cash reciepts. The payments portion should be $3.4 bln in 1988 and $3.3 bln in 2009.

[riders2010]

We're going to compete with governments that subsidize the crap out of their farmers?

[charliep]

What will change?

You can have a look at how money is allocated in government programs.

[URL="http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/21-015-x/2009002/tablesectlist-listetableauxsect-eng.htm"]direct payments[/URL]

[FarmRanger]

From the NFU website their 1st headline states -
<i>Free Trade and Globalization Has Decimated
Canada's Farms</i>
Oh really?  Farm debt as a percentage of assets
has gone from 20.6% to 22.2%.  Not what I’d call
a crippling increase in debt, but their website
headline proclaims this is some big disaster
caused by trade agreements(like NAFTA).  If they
were actually not trying to negatively spin the
truth with sensational headlines, you would notice
that the <b>total equity in farming has nearly
tripled since 1988. </b>   NFU conclusions are
rarely a product of logical analysis of the facts.
This quote directly from the <i> ““Free Trade”: Is
it working for farmers? Comparing 1988 to 2010“
</i>document would be funny if it weren’t so
costly to western grain farmers. <b> <i>“Waves
of agribusiness mergers are facilitated and
competition is almost eliminated.”</i></b> If
reduced competition amongst buyers of our grain
is a bad thing, why does the NFU so strongly
militate for a single buyer <b>(no competition at
all)</b> for western Canadian wheat, durum and
barley??
 
 

[grassfarmer]

CharlieP,

I think most people would consider increased indebtedness as a sign of business failure,or poor business health at least.
"Farmers have used debt extremely well to grow their businesses/wealth" That's rather like the current global financial problem isn't it? Look how well the US, for example, has used debt to grow their business/wealth.
"If anything trade and things like CETA are a step in the right direction."
Yes, trade is a good thing and a necessary thing but blindly walking into signing a trade agreement where Canada gives up considerable rights and freedoms with no promise of anything in return is just plain stupid. Have agreements - but make them good ones. Not for the first time Canada appears to be one of the most globally naive agreement participants.

FarmRanger - DUH!! The CWB is a marketing organisation working on behalf of grain producers - it is not an end use grain buyer.

[FarmRanger]

<i>“…increased indebtedness as a sign of business failure…”</i>
How is debt to asset ratio rising less than 2% a sign of business failure? Why would any reasonable person consider using leverage to grow a business as a sign of business failure? Is the next generation expected to start farming without using debt?

<i>….signing a trade agreement where Canada gives up considerable rights and freedoms…</i>
wd9 asked what we’re giving up; still waiting for an answer.

<i>DUH!! The CWB is a marketing organisation working on behalf of grain producers - it is not an end use grain buyer.</i>
There’s a big difference between working on behalf of grain producers and working for the benefit of grain producers. The CWB is unaccountable bureaucracy backed by binding legislation to forcibly confiscate property from all farmers in a singled out geographic area of the country. This is reminiscent of totalitarian dictatorships, and should have no place in free societies. Canada should be ashamed for not fixing this years ago.

[TOM4CWB]

Grassfarmer,

Should any one be surprised you support the CWB; NO.

I simply quoted the petition on the NFU web site that was posted here in this thread against the CETA.

I did not make this up... the CWB is specifically mentioned in the CETA NFU petition.

After what is happening to our feed grain prices... the lack of transparent international price signals directly depreciates a big chunk of our families 2010 harvest.

If we had market choice... the CWB would be the first to arbtrage the international grain markets and offer better returns because of competition.

Instead the CWB 'pro bono' (no charge to consumers) lowers feed grain values.

Clearly the CWB is a buyer of our grain... with control over the price we obtain. NO COMPETITION. REDUCED VALUES for feed grains in particular.

Why else would have ZERO tonnes be shipped through the B series feed barley pool in 2009-10?

[tipsy]

Farmranger its not Canadians who should be ashamed, as there are plenty of Canadians who wish to have cwb vlolantaryized. Who should be ashamed are the Present conservatives and their supporters. They just simply refuse to keep their promise and their own party platform too address this cwb problem.