CETA

[wd9]

I love reading the articles from CUPE (Canadian union of Public Employees) that preface news releases with...

The release of the report, which draws heavily on leaked documents including the draft negotiating text, coincides with the third round of negotiations between Canada and the European Union from April 19-23 in Ottawa.

If i was a unionized civil servant, i may want to whip up a frenzy too to protect my government job.

[grassfarmer]

Charliep,
I wasn't staying away from the "original theme of PBR" - the original theme of the post was CETA and PBR wasn't mentioned until well through. I was merely pointing out the stupidity of TOM4CWB's comment that it was "all about the CWB and single desk selling"

On the "issues I raise" which part of them provides better access to the large EU market? They are all about handicapping Canadian jurisdictions ability to favor local or Canadian products and businesses when procuring products and services. I guess working for the AB Government you are expected to repeat the mantra that increasing total $ value exports is the way to prosperity. The events of recent decades prove otherwise.
Facts: since 1988 exports have tripled BUT SO HAS FARM DEBT.
Realized net farm income from the market since 2002 HAS BEEN NEGATIVE.

As always in Alberta the facts are negotiable as long as the ideology remains intact.

[wd9]

But as our moderator has suggested, back to PBR. Wilagro et al, what are we as farmers losing? Will we lose the right to keep RR seed and reseed with progeny? clearfield wheat? Invigor canola? Midge resistant wheat? Um, those are protected so none of those and every other variety covered under PBR.

Could it be we would be gaining investment in the industry by having a stable respect of intellectual property both nationally and internationally? If a technology doesn't make financial sense for a farm, it won't be successful. Businesses just don't run that way. But we need investment to come up with these innovations and the companies need to be insured they can recoup. All quite simple. Nobody buys RR canola because there are no choices. You can still buy candle polish canola or magnum or quantum II and clean it for your own seeding the next year and you don't have to deal with big bad Dekalb, or PHB, or Viterra, or on and on.

What are we as farmers losing with adoption of this treaty?

[charliep]

grassfarmer

Just curious about where your numbers come from. Checking Statistics Canada, Alberta farm debt was about $6.5 bln in 1988. Not in your point but farm asset value was $27.7 bln. Will let let calculate equity. In 2009, farm debt was reported at $13.6 bln versus an asset value of $89.2 bln.

Other number are in the below including farm income.

[URL="http://cansim2.statcan.gc.ca/cgi-win/cnsmcgi.pgm?Lang=E&CNSM-Fi=CFFD-BDFEAC/Doc/Prod-eng.htm"]statistics canada[/URL]

Off topic. Sorry.

[charliep]

Actually numbers are closer if you look at Canadian numbers. Farm debt Canada 1988 - $22.5 bln. Assets - $109.4 bln. Fast forward 2009. Debt $63 bln. Asset - $284 bln.

Note you tighted increased agricultural trade which you admited has been successful to farm debt which you say is an indicator of failure. Not sure why. I would highlight farmers have used debt extremely well to grow their businesses/wealth. If anything trade and things like CETA are a step in the right direction.

[charliep]

A little slower than most. Now I understand.

[URL="http://www.nfu.ca/index.html"]nfu[/URL]

[charliep]

Apologize for monopolizing and taking off topic but too interesting when you start looking at the numbers.

Total Canadian cash reciepts 1988 - $22.4 bln. Realized farm income - $3.8 bln (note cash - excludes inventory adjustment). Farm support payments (excluding CWB final) - $2.2 bln.

Fast forward 2009 - Farm cash reciepts - $44.2 bln. Realized farm income - $3.6 bln. Farm support payments (also adjusted) - $1.8 bln.

[charliep]

Screwed up - CWB payments are included with farm cash reciepts. The payments portion should be $3.4 bln in 1988 and $3.3 bln in 2009.

[riders2010]

We're going to compete with governments that subsidize the crap out of their farmers?

[charliep]

What will change?

You can have a look at how money is allocated in government programs.

[URL="http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/21-015-x/2009002/tablesectlist-listetableauxsect-eng.htm"]direct payments[/URL]