CGC at it again

[JDGreen]

Seems like the cgc has announced new grading guidelines with respect to red lentils this week. Only problem is they are doing this after the grain companies have deals to deliver and farmers have deals with the grain companies. Multiple cars on the way or sitting at port waiting to be graded. This is a huge problem as now the CGC has declared that color in red lentils is a huge concern this year. This after an article in grainnews this week written by a respectable person in the lentil industry stated that coat color is not of much concern in a red lentil. The CGC apparrently has set these new guidelines at the request of our customers. WOW talk about stupid.. Of course they want them downgraded as they can get them cheaper as an x3 or 3. Elwin Hermanson is sure doin a fine job there at the CGC I would have to say. I was privy to some samples with regard to this so called color standard and it was an absolute joke at best. Once again the CGC will cost farmers and grain companies millions ..

[JDGreen]

ahh yes they are now in the Western producer claiming red lentils growers are in uncharted territory this year .. What a pile of crap. My reds show the exact same type of damage they did in 1999,2000, 2004, 2008 and now again in 2010. Never an issue before but now they claim to be the great gurus of lentil splitting.. Too stupid to realize the end user is just trying to buy cheaper .. What a crock. Did my own test tonight and dont see any difference in any way between their so called perfect color and another seed of so called bleached color.

[dave4441]

This is a major issue. The industry shipped 1000s of MT of product last year from red crop that sat out in rain all the way thru Oct and we shipped it Nov-July last year. The claim that we have never seen this bad of product is BS. I had a sample graded at CGC stoon as a #2 on Oct 5th and today CGC will grade it a #3, according to type samples i have seen. Major shift on grading. I would suggest people contact CGC and their MLA and get this stopped. Due to this change in grading it is expected that the entire red crop will drop out of the #2 grade into x3 and 3. Why would CGC want to downgrade product when customers have not complained about the quality and the Pulse Sub Committee, which can reccomend grade changes, has not yet met this year.

[wmoebis]

Dave4441; Would you ask for a reinsoect on those lentils that the CGC inspected in S'toon? And post official results here for us. You have 30 days to ask for reinspect from original inspection. Don't be 1 day late or they won't do it.

If the grade changes it will not cost you anything. If it maintains grade it will cost you like $25 or something. But you would prove or disprove a change in grading proceedures for all of us. Maybe we could take up a collection.

It will not change the value of what you have sold or have for sale, the buyers are going to buy on what they see at delivery.

I am not trying to get personal here just want to qualify changes at CGC and this is the ideal way.

[JDGreen]

dave you are right .. There is a group of producers that are now not being paid for red lentils that are delivered to a primary elevator, because the primary shipper doesnt know what to do now that the rules have changed mid stream. I am contacting my MP on monday. They have asked for the product back but it cant be segregated from others now as it is all mixed in a bin together. There could be a shit storm in certain delivery points come monday. There are cars on route to vancouver graded a #2 that will be downgraded to a #3 at port now.. This is a HUGE hit to grain companies and will only filter down to the producer. As i said the check samples for color that i saw from CGC were an absolute joke.. Someone needs to be accountable for this fiasco.

[mcfarms]

These are the two current pulse and other grains producer members on the |Standards sub committee ask them to bring the changes to the fall Sub committee and standards meeetings should be in about 2 weeks.

Kelvin Rothenburger
(Manitoba Pulse Growers Association Inc.)
RR 2, Thornhill, MB R0G 2T0
Telephone: (204) 822-3698
Email: budfarm@xplornet.com

Vicki Dutton
(Saskatchewan Pulse Growers)
Box 1149, North Battleford, SK S9A 3K2
Telephone: (306)-445-4022
Email: vicki@westergrain.com

[TOM4CWB]

JD,

Something is wrong.


Have a read for yourself.

http://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/fact-fait/grades-2-eng.htm


"How grain grades change

Did you know?

If you get a high grade on a delivery in the fall and a low grade on a delivery from the same bin later in the year, that's the elevator operator's decision. You may have received a high grade because the elevator operator decided to blend your grain with other deliveries.
Grain grades are not changed throughout the year
Changes to the grading system occur after the Eastern Grain Standards Committee and Western Grain Standards Committee have researched, discussed and approved the change, and after the Regulations in the Canada Grain Act change. Grade changes are usually introduced at the beginning of the new crop year. They involve the introduction of new grades, the removal of grades, or changes in tolerances and specifications within the grades.

Grades are developed as a way of segregating levels of quality within types of grain. Customers choose from the level of quality that meets their end-use needs. When customers express concerns about the specific quality of Canadian grain grades, the Canadian Grain Commission carries out research and, after consultation with producers, marketers and processors, proposes changes to the Western Grain Standards Committee.

Here's an example of a grade change in wheat. In 2001, the Western Grain Standards Committee recommended measures to protect the bread making quality of Canadian wheat when sprout damage is widespread. Before the Western Grain Standards Committee considered this change, the Canadian Grain Commission researched how the No. 2 and 3 grades of Canada Western Red Spring wheat performed within new tolerances proposed for sprout damage. On August 1, 2001, following a change in the regulations, tolerances came into effect for severe sprout damage in the No. 2 and 3 grades of Canada Western Red Spring wheat. Tighter tolerances for total sprout-damaged kernels in those grades also came into effect."

For a change like you talk about... I would be VERY surprised if it occured in the middle of the crop year.

Nothing shows up on the CGC web site.

The western standards committee has not met yet.

[wmoebis]

Tom, you are right. The discription under the degree of soundness has not changed nor has the grain standards committee sat on new standards.

This is where I believe the issue has come in. Sales were made on spec for new crop, buyers believed that better crop was going to come in. After they saw that there wasn't any better new crop only worse and they were buying below standards, they had to make changes to lower thier costs in order to off set lower profits.

Can anyone tell me why we have a #1 grade. Almost every thing is bought on #2 or better and paid the same price? I think now we have to sell as #3 or better but still ask the same price as #2 or better.

If you think lentils are an issue wait till the system gets a handle on what is out there for WHT and durum.

Like in my earlier post below people are still going to eat and middle men/prossesors are still going to make thier profits. It is producers/comsumers who will pay.

I have cheaper grain but it has been through the cows once.

[JDGreen]

tom and wmoebis.. you are both WRONG .. Listen carefully.. THIS JUST CAME ABOUT in the last few days. I have as much if not more experience growing red lentils than anyone out there as i started in 1995 and have grown them every year since. I have also been involved in trading and buying them at one point in my life. Hear me when i say we ae not shipping unusual red lentils. The problem is that the CGC has now pegged all red lentils that are even slightly faded as not being worth of high splitting efficiency. This is absolutely 100% wrong and will cost millions to everyone.

[wmoebis]

I am willing to admit when I am wrong for sure. BUT

Would you tell me the name of the trader or traders you are refuring to? I would like to go and see thier standards for:
Good Natural CLR
RGNCLR (lightly discoloured)
Fair CLR (moderately dicoloured)
Poor CLR (severly dicoloured(dark brown))

Slightly faded is not in the discription of any grade. If anyone including the CGC are grading (off) these standards and discriptions they are wrong.

As you should know every trader should have the most current standards he and you can compare to. Have these standards changed this week, with your own eyes?

I have to admit I have not seen standards this week to compare to the ones from two weeks ago. I am talking official CGC standards which they must buy on. Not something that the trader has made up on his own.

If these standards are out there for me to see and they are that much different I will admit I'm wrong.

[dave4441]

You are 100 percent correct JD, I see the issue as the same and you are correct it is within the last few days. We need CGC to prove or disprove the concern as soon as possible. problem is distance to Winnipeg. They are saying there is no change so they have to show it now because the trade is very confused. Does you last name start with a W, JD?

[dave4441]

wmoebis-do you have understanding of the green lentil color range of a #2 large green? You can drive a truck thru that color spec. What i beleive is the new #2 color you can not drive a knife thru it. It is very tight and reds are mainly split.

Some #1 is sold but is very limited. There is some countries that will buy a #1 higher quality for whole seed consumption, ie it is not split. They pay for that extra value. #2 grade is used for splitting, but lower quality X3 or #3 is also in demand based on pure economics. In the past we have sold a #2 because that is what we grow.

[wmoebis]

Like I said if there is new CGC standards out there as of last week, NO I have not seen them.

And YES I might have a little understanding of how to read standards and colour guides.

[JDGreen]

wmoebis apparently you don't grow them so you are lost in this discussion. Who makes the decision based on the color spectrum?? I would doubt that anyone in the cgc even understands that there is some color variation amongst the varieties including mottling, dark skins, natural shading etc. I wont name the companies until next week pending the final settlements. However it was beyond comical watching company graders look at little envelopes full of red lentils trying to determine which one matched color wise with the delivered product. Once again i can take a dozen different shades of red lentils this year and put them thru my home futball test and they are all hulled equally. They are all also the distinct orange color the buyers prefer. So what really is the problem then?? As Jeff Jackson states in the Grainnews this week, "color is of very little importance".. Perhaps the damage guidelines need changing, but in the mean time our foreign customers are licking their chops whilst they have us all at the mercy of the CGC. This is a screw job and I and others do not see it any other way. Perhaps you can tell me what a reasonable discount for a so call good natural colored red lentil vs a fair color red lentil should be?? (same total damage in each lot of under 2%) Would 12 cents a pound (7.20/bushel) sound reasonable ??? Understand yet why im slightly pissed off?

[wmoebis]

Sorry, I thought the discussion was about grading and standards not growing. Guess I am lost. That explains why the proper usage of standards by a qualified grader would seem comical.

I'll back on out of here then and not interupt you red lentil growers.