help the farmers that grow durum

[bob4choice]

Thalpenny,
You stated "They would have been priced according to location, in the same fashion as every other mill in Canada - on a competitive footing with their US counterparts."

When a mill based on the prairies buys grain from the CWB (or does a buyback) it pays roughly the same price as a mill in Ontario. Now how on earth can it compete with Ontario when to sell it's manufactured product in the Eastern US it has to pay the freight twice? (once to the CWB for the freight to Thunder Bay and once for the finished product to market)

You should read "1984 by George Orwell" . You seem to be well on your way to adopting "double-speak".
The author was amazingly prescient when, in his classic book, 1984, he described the future appearance of "double-speak" as a powerful tool for political control.

[TOM4CWB]

bob4choice,

I think you will find the CWB subtracts the freight off the purchase price, when I did buybacks this was the normal case. I understand the CWB backs the freight off Portland for Alberta mills, they track where products go and adjust accordingly!

Actually normally, if the mills hold their heads just the right way, and say the right things, they can do very well buying domestically from the CWB!

But if they don't...?

[wedino]

Tom4, When I did a buy back, the cwb charged me the difference between the initial & their selling price. I stroked a cheque to the grain co. that did the transaction for me. What peeves me about the whole process is the $5.00/MT I paid the grain co. to do this transaction. Why can't I do this transaction with the cwb directly? CWB tells me that I may not pay them, so what, if I don't pay what stops them from holding back my payments?

Another peeve is the time it takes to do the transaction.

& still another is the fact cwb puts a time limit on the export permitt. They make me buy my own grain & then tell me to export it in 2 months or?? I don't know the consequences, put me in jail during winter months, please!

[TOM4CWB]

wedino,

Being charged the difference between the initial and the buy-back CWB price is correct.

The question is what deductions the grain company did on your initial payment grain check that was applied against the buy-back.

On my buy-backs freight from the point of delivery, say Lethbridge, was for easy figureing $30.00/t.

Suppose #1CWRS 13.5 buy-back basis Vancouver/St. Lawerence was $200.00/t, and the initial was $173.00/t.

If the CWB Agent takes the $30.00/t freight off the buy-back making it $170.00, then the $30.00/t freight should come off the initial payment, making it $143.00/t as well!

Further cleaning and elevation must be credited back if the are deducted from the initial payment and not the CWB buy-back charge.

At any rate the difference should be $27.00/t no matter how the calculation is actually done.

If the elevator company charged for freight, cleaning and elevation that they did not provide, and these charges were not subtracted from the CWB buy-back price charged, then in my opinion it was a simple case of fraud.

No person legally should have to pay for services not provided, should they?

Legally the Agent of the CWB is responsible for the payment and administration weighing and initial grading, therefore there is service provided for the $5.00/t if that is what you negotiated!

If you are reputable, have a good track record with the CWB Agent, then obviously you could get this srevice for less. Unfortunately the CWB Agent looses the handle, so they tend not to do it for nothing.

I agree the CWB could streamline the process like what they have done for Organic growers, or better yet issue the no-cost export licenses, that the CWB Act and NAFTA requires of them, wouldn't that be better wedino?

[wedino]

>>If the elevator company charged for freight, cleaning and elevation that they did not provide, and these charges were not subtracted from the CWB buy-back price charged, then in my opinion it was a simple case of fraud.

I've often wondered about that. How did they get me into the pool? They never issued an invoice or statement of any kind, all I have is my cancelled cheque.

>>Legally the Agent of the CWB is responsible for the payment and administration weighing and initial grading, therefore there is service provided for the $5.00/t if that is what you negotiated!

I agree, they did provide a service, all I'm saying is "why can't I issue the cheque directly to cwb" & keep $5.00/MT in my jeans?

>>or better yet issue the no-cost export licenses, that the CWB Act and NAFTA requires of them, wouldn't that be better wedino?

You've raised an interesting point re: NAFTA. Rumblings around here regarding an American that is purchasing durum & shipping it state side somehow by passing cwb by using NAFTA.

Any way no cost licence is the way to go IMHO. Would help to lower elevation charges & hopefully get rid of ridiculous shrinkage (tookage) the grain co. take off the top.

[TOM4CWB]

wedino,

In my buy-back documents there is a primary elevator receipt, as the Agent for the CWB weighed and inspected the wheat I did the buy-back on. You should have the same documents, however I suppose the Agent you used may have done all the paperwork electronically and not issued you any of the paper copies.

It had to be entered into the CWB system, could have even been done by the CWB when the buy-back transaction was complete and paid for!

Interesting about NAFTA, I wonder when the CWB will admit that it has a serious problem with the US?
Seems,
"Denile isn't just a river in Egypt, it is alive and well at the CWB!"

[wedino]

Tom4, Agent for cwb didn't look at or weigh the barley I bought back. I told them the quanity I wanted to export & the grade & all they did was figure the $amount I owed to cwb. In the end I was short 1/4MT or so & they issued me a refund on that amount(only paper work I have). This was Robust barley, it was rejected for malt by another grain co., I bought it back as feed & sold in states as malt.

Interesting that your agent weighed your grain, how did they do that? Did you unload & reload?

[rockpile]

Help Durum Farmers,
You guys got a little off topic here, but I'd like to, as a long time Durum grower, add some history here. In the summer of 1996, Alberta Ag Minister, Walter Pazkowski, was going wild publically that Canadian Durum was being sold to Italy for less than what Italian Durum products (pound for pound) were being sold at in our own stores. What he failed to mention was that the Italian Government was, along with the EEC, subsidizing those exports at obviously well below cost. Instead, he blamed the CWB for their bad marketing and blamed them for working against the Western farmer. So get rid of the CWB. In August of 96, the US Government imposed a 49% import tarriff to offset those Italian subsidies - to protect US producers. In Canada, the Government agreed that those subsidies did hurt Canadian Pasta Manufacturers, but did not do enough hurt to warrant a similar tarriff, because 'consummers' were receiving a 'net benefit'. This is all public information. It also displays the difference between our two countries, and, obviously farm support. The point is, knowing this, why would any farmer want to invest in a Canadian value added enterprise, when the cards are stacked against you? This is not a Canadian Wheat Board problem. They face the same dilemna in attracting secondary processing. It's bad for the voting consummer. Wouldn't it be better if we tried to work together?
Rockpile

[bob4choice]

Durum/Wheat Buy-Back is a still a like Cruel Joke!

1.The CWB Export License states that you must have a delivery contract for all the durum you want to export which is fine. BUT you can't export more than what has been called by the CWB. How can a farmer build up a relationship with a processor when his deliveries are ultimately controlled by the CWB.

2.Also it appears that you still must name the buyer in the Export License. In the past when a grain company, I won't name, developed a market in China (using the CWB export licensing system)
the CWB came later and scooped up the business by offering a lower price to the customer. Coincidence? I think not!

3.Given the pricing uncertainties it would also be impossible to lock in an agreed to price with customer over any lengthy time period since the price you must pay for the Buy-Back is related to the export date. So much for hedging.

See Export Licence Info Below:



CWB Export Licence


In order for farmers to export their own grain in whole or processed form, it is necessary to first obtain a CWB export licence for those grains and products exported from eastern and western Canada.



Under the Canadian Wheat Board Act, the CWB is responsible for the marketing of all wheat and barley in export markets and in the domestic markets for human consumption.

The CWB also manages the issuance of export and inter-provincial licences.

Western Canadian farmers who want to obtain a CWB export licence must participate in the CWB pool account. The CWB will establish a cash price based on the date of sale and the type and quality of the grain offered for sale. The sales documents are then drawn up so an individual or company can secure ownership of the wheat or barley and the documents needed to market it to a specified export market. This is called the "producer-direct sale" process.

Producer-direct sales:

(a)The farmer needs to have a signed CWB delivery contract that has been called for delivery or available acreage-based delivery calls so that he/she may deliver grain.

(b)The farmer or elevator manager contacts the CWB to receive a U.S. cash sales price. For milling wheat, this cash price is based on the North American value for spring wheat, which is established by using the Minneapolis market for futures and milling quality.

(c)The farmer must negotiate the elevator company's administration charges with the elevator agent. The farmer will then consider whether a producer-direct sale is profitable and whether to proceed with the transaction.

(d)If the decision is made to go ahead with the transaction, the farmer must establish the weight and the grade of grain, which is involved in the transaction.

The elevator company, on behalf of the farmer, must complete a sales contract with the CWB at the agreed CWB cash price.

Standard contract terms will be applied (such as 30-day delivery period and five per cent tolerance on weight). The sales contract is legally binding and requires a company/farmer to pay the difference between the CWB cash price and the initial payment to deliver the grain.

The farmer must have a valid delivery permit book, delivery contract and adequate contract calls for the sales of this grain.

(e)On behalf of the farmer, the elevator company will apply for an export licence providing the CWB with the farmer's name, address, the Custom's port of exit, the destination, the consignee at final destination and the quantity and grade of grain to be exported. The CWB will provide the elevator company with a sales contract and an export licence.

The CWB will forward the necessary copies of the licence to Canada Customs.

(f)The elevator company will issue a producer certificate for the grain, which reflects the initial payment for the grade and tonnage of grain in the transaction. The farmer is now eligible for all interim and final payments on that grain.

(g)The elevator manager enters the type and quantity of grain in the appropriate place in the delivery permit book.

(h)The farmer and/or trucker transporting the grain for export must stop at Canada Customs to deliver two copies each of the export licence and the bill of lading. Canada Customs will stamp and return one copy of each to the farmer/trucker and will return the second copy to the CWB.

Failure to stop and report to Canada Customs is an offense under the Customs Act, and is subject to penalties under that Act.

NOTE: It is important to notify the CWB immediately if the Customs port of exit is to be changed. The CWB will take steps to ensure proper changes are made to the export licence. CWB export incenses expire 60 days after the date of issuance. If the export licence has been used in part, it is not possible to move the licence between ports. A new export licence must be issued.

(i)In order to export bulk barley or a processed wheat or barley product, a similar export licence is required. If a farmer wishes to export his/her processed product he/she must complete a producer-direct sale process and obtain an export licence.

A company, which is exporting a processed product, must present the sales contract number to the CWB in order to receive an export licence. The CWB Export Licencing Department handles these export licences.


Contact:
Export Licencing -
Trevor Magee (204) 983-3569
Producer Direct Sales -
Jim Thompson (204) 983-8728
Gord Price (204) 983-8757
Rick Steinke (204) 983-1029

[TOM4CWB]

wedino,

on buyback procedure;
We weighed my truck empty after unload in the US, and did not dump in Canada.

Since the CWB loves me sooo much, when I did buy-backs they had to be by the book or both myself and the Agent I was working with would have been...

rockpile,

I agree we need to work together.

Sometimes when forced to fit into certain boxes, like the CWB box, things get ugly, when if we were working together because we wanted to, things would go much smoother, maybe?

There can be no question that CWB marketing is political, and things never are simple when they get political.

bob4choice,

On CWB buy-back sales, if you were on good terms with the CWB I understand they will allow buy-back exports without it being called yet, or so I have been told.

Could this be trusted if a commercial relationship had been built south of the border, or would the buy-back for this market get more expensive?

The CWB Act allows the CWB to control all these factors as they choose.

In Canada we are free... we are free to do what we are told!

Wouldn't it be nice, if we could dream...?

[bob4choice]

TOM4CWB

Good points! It reminds me of when I loaded 2 producer cars a few years ago.
I was told by those with previous experience doing this that it's okay if you go over your contract call. And sure enough, somehow we ended up delivering twice our call amount when we received extra cars, and never heard a word about it. In another case that year, I was able to haul in all my CPSR wheat in January to an elevator, even though the call was only at 50%. It seemed that there was a need for this particular variety and so it was okay.
I know this has been going on at certain flour mills for years, where if you know the right people, you can get in on this early delivery option.

There isn't any fixed policy on this matter and it stinks.

There seems to be all these exceptions to the rule, but if the rules are broken, the CWB reserves the right to penilize you. In other words, if you are my friend, and don't criticize me, I might leave you alone.
I expect each and every grain company in Canada operates under this pressure, and this is why we never hear one complaint from them about the KGB.

Oh! Oh! Now I'm in trouble, I better stop this complaining ....

[wedino]

I think the Conagra's & ADM's & the like simply tell the cwb what they will pay for any grain they purchase from the cwb. I can't prove it, but I'm sure that's what happens.

Re: breaking rules - fall 2000 - Conagra would take all the durum you had regardless of quota or contract calls. The grower didn't get a cheque until the contract was called.