• You will need to login or register before you can post a message. If you already have an Agriville account login by clicking the login icon on the top right corner of the page. If you are a new user you will need to Register.

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CWB Single Desk vs Grain Companies

Collapse
X
Collapse
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    CWB Single Desk vs Grain Companies

    A current argument in support of the single desk compares the CWB to grain companies. Allen Oberg, director-candidate in District 5 says “Unlike private grain companies who work on margins, the CWB’s price premiums are returned directly to farmers”.

    <b>One thing that never seems to come up in this argument is the fact that with the CWB system farmers actually pay both the CWB overhead and the grain companies their tariffs for handling. It’s a double whammy.</b>

    Last year, the CWB overhead cost worked out to $3.27/tonne. In addition, on behalf of farmers the CWB paid grain companies $8.34/tonne for terminal handling and $3.83/tonne for storage. (All these figures are in the Annual Report.) On top of that, farmers paid grain companies (through cash ticket deductions) elevation and cleaning fees in the neighbourhood of $14.00 and $5.00 respectively.

    <b>So under the CWB system, CWB costs are in addition to the grain company charges for handling.</b> On non-CWB crops like canola, obviously farmers don’t pay the CWB. And, as I’ve shown before, the handling charges are much less on non-CWB grains due to competition – both export and domestic.

    Here’s another way to look at it. Grain companies bid on CWB tenders for railcars by discounting their tariffs that would apply to CWB grains. Often the bids show handling fee reductions in excess of $20/tonne. Think about it – how could a company discount their fees by $20/tonne unless they were making more than that in the first place? Also, why would they discount at all? The answer is they are competing for extra shipping of CWB wheat. Clearly, when grain companies compete for grain, the fees they charge go down – your costs go down.

    Let’s say for argument sake that in a competitive marketplace (like we would have with a voluntary CWB) total grain handling costs would go down $10.00/tonne (or about half of the discounts we see on tenders – it would likely be more, but this is enough to make the argument).

    The CWB reported it was able to get premiums of $6.65/tonne on all wheat sold last year. After covering overhead, that works out to $3.38/tonne net for the farmers’ benefit. Now factor in the excess grain handling cost because we don’t have competition for CWB grains – (remember the $10.00/tonne).

    <b>Now the single desk “benefit” to farmers is a net loss of $6.62/tonne.</b>

    That is, of course, if you believe the CWB gets premiums in the first place.

    Now factor in all the other costs that you pay through the CWB system but aren’t reported directly – like demurrage. It only gets worse.

    There are a few director candidates in the CWB election that say the single desk gets better prices. If you get a chance, ask them to explain how that works when the CWB’s own financial figures don’t support that conclusion.

    #2
    Close to 500 employees plus consultants don't come cheap.

    They are just another middle man taking their fully indexed cut.

    Comment


      #3
      I like to make a comparison that we used to pay CWB employees 1 or 2 bushels an hour for marketing. Now we pay 10 or better. We can no longer justify their services.

      Comment


        #4
        It is scary to think that 1 to two bushels/hour almost sounds low. 10 is absolutely outrageous.

        A good marketing firm for all grains will cost you 1 to 2 bushels/acre. (less that 1 if its canola these days). And that is for all your crops. Not just your low paying cereal grains.

        But then you wouldn't get the excellent weather forcasting of Bruce Burnet who uses google as a weather forecast model. Very comparable to what I can get on my blackberry.

        Comment


          #5
          1987 CWB salaries & benefits was $17M
          2000 was $30.5 M

          For the year 2000:
          The salary/benefits paid out to SENIOR MANAGEMENT, which was app 17 people, was $3.5M which accoiunted for 12% of the total amount allottewd to human resources.

          Not including B of D's salaries

          Farmers pay, in 2010, an additional layer of CWB fat, called money sucking CWB non-essentials, in my very humble, modest opinion.

          I'm expressing an opinion of course, that could be viewed as misguided, seeingst I write it from a rural area, and am a woman, both of which are often viewed in Ottawa and in urban centres, as a minority lapse, 'surviving amongst the habitually oppressed'. Poor me. Parsley

          Comment


            #6
            will be interesting to see if the BS blog continues after the election is over

            Comment


              #7
              What part is BS Stubble?

              http://new.wavlist.com/movies/084/afgm-truth.wav

              Comment


                #8
                Stubble what part is BS. Why cant CWB supporters just not see the truth. Because like the famous saying.
                YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!
                Get a life.

                Comment


                  #9
                  stubble:
                  My sources for this last piece:

                  Premium achieved on wheat - CWB 08-09 Annual Report, page 45
                  Overhead - CWB 08-09 Annual Report, page 47

                  Paid to grain companies by the CWB:
                  Terminal handling - CWB 08-09 Annual Report, page 46
                  Inventory storage - CWB 08-09 Annual Report, page 46

                  Paid to grain companies by farmers:
                  Primary elevation - Canadian Grain Commission, Licensed Primary Elevator Tariffs, pages 1-3
                  Cleaning - Canadian Grain Commission, Licensed Primary Elevator Tariffs, pages 4-5

                  CWB tender results:
                  Maximum discount - The Federal Grain Monitor, Data Tables 2008-09, page 2A-19.
                  (The winning tenders tend to have over $20 discount. I used $10 - just to be fair.

                  Which of these sources is BS, stubble?

                  Do the math yourself.

                  Yes, it's real nice to <b>THINK</b> that the single desk gives you market power, but in the face of the CWB's own numbers that tell you otherwise, how can you honestly <b>BELIEVE</b> it gives you better prices?

                  And even if you don't mind paying this price for whatever reason, how is it reasonable to force others to pay it as well?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    stubble:

                    I'm glad to see you are interested in my commentaries and my blog.

                    Would you like to see me continue beyond the election?

                    John De Pape

                    Comment


                      #11
                      At the risk of being labelled a "CWB Supporter" again. I will say this that if the CWB disappears their overhead will just transition over to the grain companies under the guise of "making necessary improvements to benefit the farmer". You'll still make the same, but shareholders dividends will go up. So I issue you all a challenge the supporters and detractors alike. Lets open it wide open, lets do in the CWB and lets run our farms like businesses or family farms exactly the way we all want individually. Survival of the fittest, you can produce anything, sell anything (except Pot of course)anywhere, anytime...you are completely on your own. No fuel subsidies, your farm trucks and Super "B" need commercial plates,licenses and insurance and you get no support what so ever from any government...because you are free marketers and you don't need anyone. Lets end the Department of Agriculture Federally and Provincially. Lets really make it free! Lets see what happens, lets just try it out for a couple of years. I believe I can survive either way, but I suspect there are a lot out there who hide behind "the family farm" moniker who won't and their farms will become part of a Hutterite Colony, black or "white", or something more profitable like a golf course community. Maybe it's just time to let the chips fall where they might if only just to end this eternal debate that has been going on forever. However then the blowhards will just find something new to bitch about!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Just to be clear, this thread started with a discussion about the single desk (which is only one aspect of the CWB). Nobody's talking about getting rid of the CWB.

                        This is what I see as the unfortunate part of this debate - it doesn't seem to matter what you say, it often gets misinterpreted as either FOR or AGAINST the existence of the CWB. The CWB even promotes it - if you say anything about any aspect of the CWB, however small, they paint you as a "nay-sayer" or "CWB basher".

                        Comment


                          #13
                          At this stage I am indifferent to the CWB, if it stays okay, if it doesn't oh well. I'm not "picking" on anyone. I'm just saying that if you really want to be free then you need to cut the government out of the equation completely, because if you accept anything from them, you are not really a free marketer. Really though how can you believe the CWB would survive in your idea of a free market. They'd be just another player with greatly diminished resources. Furthermore if you feel that the CWB has no value then why should it exist. It's like getting partially pregnant...you can't. There is lots wrong with the CWB, but if no one wants to fix it to make it work better for the farmer and if no one believe it is a credible support for the farmer, then why keep it...lets go straight to true "Free Market". We are all very capable of finding our own customers and getting the best prices for our grain who needs the CWB?

                          Comment

                          • Reply to this Thread
                          • Return to Topic List
                          Working...