So you want to be "Free"?

[dmlfarmer]

Thanks Fran, but nowhere in that link does it say anything about inventories being transferred to the CWB for sale as Highwayman claims. That is what I want details on.

[fjlip]

CWB was voluntary from 35 to 43 and non board prices were higher, due to the war demand.I guess it would work.

[PrairieSodBuster]

Okay so not everyone really wants to be really free. Here is another solution that might work. I'm going to be nice in the hopes that there will be less "I love the wheat board, I hate the wheat board" rhetoric.

How about we declare North America to be an open market with no CWB and we let the CWB continue to have exclusivity outside of North America. This will allow farmers to sell their grain to anyone in North America without having to do anything with the CWB. That way most of you who are "free marketers" will be happy as most of you are selling to the North American market (The U.S.). This means no more export buybacks in Canada, US and Mexico. However if you ship to Indonesia the CWB is still in the picture. You only would get after payments if you shipped through the wheat board (I'm sure many wouldn't really care). If you sell outside of the CWB, what you get is what you get.

To answer those who asked why the CWB should affect Farm Fuel and Farm Plates. I know there are many Commercial Truckers that are right ripped that we get cheaper fuel, we have cheaper plates for our Super B's (where as what they pay is based on tonnage) and we don't have to go through as rigorous inspection policies. Now I know most of us abuse our "field" trucks and most of our Semi's and Super B Trucks look pretty good. However if you want true free markets then we should be prepared to live like other industries. Maybe our Super B's should be treated like commercial vehicles, maybe we should be running clear diesel and not marked and maybe we shouldn't have a separate department, but have to deal with the same ones every other business does. If you want the extra's then you need to expect more government interference, the more you are willing to do for yourself should make government "assistance" less important.
I guess my biggest beef with most of you is that I've heard the same arguments for the last ten years...ad nauseum, but no one has really talked about solutions, or compromise or anything it's just black or white. Right now I believe the CWB needs to be fixed to make it work better for farmers and if that means they lose some of their control I can live with that. As long as it helps ALL farmers and not those who are so small as not to be viable or so big that they will have all the advantages. Then again in a true free market those who are most able to take advantage of the "advantages" will be the winners. That might just mean a bunch of farmers get together to create a corporation to really "go big" to gain economies of scale. If that happens when do they cease being "farmers" and are just "shareholders"?
So my final thought is the rhetoric should end and we should find a way to a solution that either helps all farmers to win, or we should hasten the day where there are no more "family farms" and more "grain producing companies".
I hate being compared to the Indians...that we can't be business like enough to take care of ourselves. If there is a CWB in the future it should be truly farmer directed and if losing the federal guarantee and preferred interest rates is how it is done then so be it.

[charliep]

Australia started with direct selling to the domestic market in the AWB's road to change.

Perhaps even in Canada not a big change to have a North American barley market. About 85 to 90 % of western Canadian barley is sold in an open market. Corn can be imported into Canada with no restrictions as can other feed including DDGs. The CWB is only involved in malt barley (domestic and export) to the tune of 2 mln tonnes depending and when things are right feed barley export.

[charliep]

Too aggressive on my domestic percent. More like about 80% domestic/20% CWB. Corn and malt barley (6 row this year given limited production/crappy quality) can flow north unresticted.

[highwayman]

dml grain stocks were transferred from the Central Selling Agency to the newly formed Crown Agency, the CWB, in 1935. These stocks were reportedly in excess of 200 million bushels unhedged and unpriced. I would assume proceeds from sales would have been retained by the crown since the government had assumed the CSA financial obligations to the banks who were ready to forclose. As for how long it took to sell these stocks, how much they received, who the buyers were or what color there hair was , do your own research, the internet is a wonderful tool! Have a nice day

[JDGreen]

Sodbuster trucks and trailers have nothing to do with the CWB, I am vehemently opposed to all farmers who drive old shit up and down the highways uninspected and sometimes not even plated (i can almost point them out daily). I have on more than one occasion made the government and SGI aware of this problem. It is my wife, children, friends and families on these same highways.

Should we pay higher plates and insurance for our own personal farm use?? The answer is no we should'nt.

Do I like your idea of free access to the North American market but not to the international market?? Once again the answer is no.

Do i think farm fuel should be subsidized?? No it should not be.

Am I willing to play by the same rules that apply to all other industries with regards to labor, liability etc. The answer is yes.

[dmlfarmer]

Actually, I have researched the failure of the pools and the CSA. I knew the government had to take control of CSA (Dec 1930 I believe) and the government marketed the unsold inventory of wheat of the Pools. Figures I have seen list the unpriced stocks at 210 million bushels. However, it was my understanding that the CSA stocks were in 1931-32 and 32-33. I had never before heard, or read, of your claim that the CWB took over CSA wheat stocks. So I had hoped you could provide some collaborating evidence to support your statement.

There are numerous university and even the government’s own website state the CGA stocks were sold prior to the CWB being enacted. They include:

http://scaa.usask.ca/gallery/wheatpool/en_chrono.php
...1929 Overpayment, Stock Market Collapse. Canadian government subsequently bails out the Pools and takes over marketing of unsold wheat inventories.

http://esask.uregina.ca/entry/saskatchewan_wheat_pool.html
The central selling agency was successful for several years until a series of events caused financial The central selling agency was successful for several years until a series of events caused financial burdens from which it could not recover: the 1929 stock market crash (“Black Tuesday”), multiple-crop-year carryovers, an overpayment on the 1929 crop, and a persistent inability to sell wheat overseas prompted the federal government to take control in the 1930–31 crop year. The federal government forced liquidation of the agency’s stocks, and ended up paying $22 million in guarantees to the banks which had been financing the central selling agency’s margin calls it could not recover: the 1929 stock market crash (“Black Tuesday”) an overpayment on the 1929 crop, and a persistent inability to sell

http://dsp-psd.pwgsc.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/modules/prb98-2-grain/dates-e.htm
Early 1930s - The CSA operated by co-ops marketed half of the wheat production but when wheat prices collapsed in 1929, the provinces were to underwrite the CSA. Further losses in 1930 forced the federal government’s intervention. It took until 1935 to liquidate the 1928 to 1930 crops

[newguy]

Most of the so called farm subsidies end up to be a consumer subsidy.Because without them grain would still be produced but would cost the consumer more. So lets get rid of them all as long as the rest of the world does too.

[bigsteve]

The past has changed--To Hell with the Past--Let's move forward from the past and deal with the future using due dillegence.To the single desk supporters-the horse and buggy days are over.

[PrairieSodBuster]

Well many of you have proved my theory, you will never find a solution because some of you are so in love with the CWB and the others are so in love with the "free market" that you can't see anything but your own position. Unless we can find a solution that will fit everyone there will be no change from the status quo. Nothing will change without some more openmindedness.

You've "nixed" my solution which would have made most of the "Free Marketers" happy and still leave something for the CWB supporters, which to me is the only workable compromise. You know I'd like to see farmers get a bigger chunk of the price of bread, beer and liquor and this could be done easily by adding a couple of pennies per loaf or bottle to these products and insure that the grain companies and the processors and the stores could keep this, and it would come directly to the farmers. If they did this I'd give up my farm plates, my purple diesel and other farm subsidies as long as the government would stop subsidizng food on my back. Still the grain used in Canada is only a small share of what is exported.

There is an old saying that if you get two farmers together you'll get three opinions and I suspect that this will continue. There is nothing socialistic about working together to achieve change. But you have to work together! Right now everyone including me is working to achieve the best for me and not necessarily the industry. It is survival of the fittest and the smartest and all the CWB or AgCanada or the Provincial Ag departments are doing is slowing that fact a bit. Ultimately though I see the day where some company starts buying up farms even large ones and starts growing crops. They will be large enough to lobby government to make rules that help them out and they won't shed a tear if they don't have farm subsidies as they will have figured out how to make money at it. Us fighting each other only hastens that day. Either I will be a farmer if we learn to have more control of our industry and work together for all our benefits or I will be a shareholder when we become irrelavent. Just the arguments that I have witnessed here and the inability to find (for lack of a better phrase) common ground makes me believe my shareholder days are coming sooner rather than later.
Wouldn't it really suck more when you wind up "sharecropping" for some company than stopping the rhetoric now and try to strategically take back control of our industry for all our benefit. We can stand together or fall alone, your choice!

[PrairieSodBuster]

To JDGreen I approve of your colour but not your comment. No the CWB has nothing to do with your trucks and that was not the point I was making. If you want a truly free system then you need to be willing to give up things that other industries doing the same feel is non competitive. The trucking company that has to buy clear diesel and has to have higher insurance and registration as a commercial operator and has to have yearly inspections does not like the fact you can run your semi with marked diesel, you have farm plates at a price just slightly higher than car plates but nowhere near what they pay for the same type of vehicle. Is that fair? They don't think so and if you want to be free don't you think you should play on a level ground.
Finally thank you for insuring that the guys driving the crappy trucks on the road are being reported by you. Good man, but if we had to play by the rules the commercial truckers do, to basically do the same thing, those guys wouldn't be on the road and if they were the fines would be so high as to really ruin their whole day.
The bottom line is this you can't have everything completely your way, you can't pick and choice the things that will be of a benefit to you, but be non-competitive with someone else without their being a "responsibility cost". If you want the government to get out of your business in one thing, shouldn't you expect them to get out of everything? When does a farm truck stop becoming a farm truck and become a commercial vehicle, when you have an enforced advantage over someone else doing the same thing. I got a little snarky there but actually I think we are on the verge of real debate thanks in part to your comments.