No Interest Free on Outstanding CAIS Programs!

[SASKFARMER3]

Back in 2002 and 2004 we lost over a million dollars since it froze the first week of august.
Did every thing to survive and payed every one.
Friday I got a letter stating that they made a mistake and I owed a ps pot of Cash to CAISP.
And oh by the way interest starts Jan 1st.
Thanks Harper.
These programs help no one but the bureaucrats that run them.
One simple crop insurance is all we need.
Thanks

[Fransisco]

You're not the only one. I've heard the same story from all sorts of guys. They got a CAIS payment after a lousy year and a couple of years later the government says oops calcualation was wrong, we want it all back.

[BreadWinner]

I got the same letter two months ago any they said they made a mistake on my cais in 2003, and they allready sent me a payment. Going to take a holiday.

[frustrated1]

Good luck. Same thing here. "They" kept assuring me the new ammendments would make it disappear. Mine was an 03 as well. Last year we had major drought so were in a crop insurance claim. Guess who gets paid first. So you're down on your knees in a drought and CAIS comes along and kicks you in the groin by taking "their share" right off the top of the insurance cheque. Total net CAIS proceeds $0. Total cost of program participation and accountants: Thousands. Lost sleep: priceless. You can even find the occasional employee that pretends to care but at the end of the day they go home and sleep and still get paid. You on the other hand....

[BTOfarmall]

If you need Welfare to farm please retire and let'r go to the Hutt's. I have never & will never collect welfare from the Government. I wouldn't even have a clue how to fill out these welfare programs. Cut the fat out the operation or yur' going to loose the ranch folks.

[ajl]

I have avoided this program due to its overwhelming complexity. Government should claw back from its main beneficiary: MNP and other large acounting firms. It is no coincidence that once these programs were released MNP quadrupled in size.

[SASKFARMER3]

In 2002 we were like all the other guys give it every possible thing, if that didn't work get planes and hit it again attitude. Then lost millions. Just about sunk farm. So went back to old way shoot for a area average and watch expenses. Funny that way works. you pay for your land you pay your self and guess what you start saving money and paying taxes. Big taxes but that's another story. Problem was got sucked into believing these programs actually worked. This year in Sask we will have guys desperate to see if these do work for them all I can say is good luck. Save up a years grain and you will be way ahead. slow and steady wins the race.

[SASKFARMER3]

All I will say S3 is there must be more to the story.

If you have a large amount owing now, then the amount you received back then must have been substantially larger than your payment calculation generated by someone who actually knew what they were doing...or was that not done and therefore you had no idea if it was right or wrong.

As an MNP client, I received money from CAIS in that year as well. The payment I received (after 3 times correcting administrative error issues) was exactly what they indicated almost a year earlier.

I have not received (nor has my brother's operation) one of these letters. We file as a combined entity since we are not 100% separate from one another and as a way to minimize our risk since we are spread out.

Just like a tax return, you get what you pay for and my $1200 per year has been a good investment.

The program will work just fine for us in 2010. I am sorry I cannot speak for the rest of you but really wonder if there is more to the story.

[SASKFARMER3]

So explain Sask why the program is working for you and your brother. Please enlighten us. You never had the frost we had in 2002 and 2004 where you had 0 to 25% production and still spent a fortune to grow the crop. You never were able to seed a single acre like lots of my northern neighbors this year. We paid every one we owed money to. Explain. please most on here want to know the secret of your success and don't tell us its NMP. Please.

[SASKFARMER3]

S3, from someone that couldn't tell us enough about how many acres you were seeding with fancy new equipment I am surprised at your posts the recent weeks. Not taking a shot at you, just surprised at some of the negativity and felt your management skills/experience would see through it.

1) First I would like to know how you are measuring your success if you are not looking at it on a accrued basis. Projections on a napkin (not suggesting that's what you do) doesn't work. Just like the Risk insurance expains in the WP, you may be good at production, but loose your profits after high land/machinery costs. Also, success is not measured by cash or lack there of in a bank account.

2) We did have the frost of 2002 just like everyone else. 2004 was patchy but impacted lots of our acres. You mention you farm around Foam Lake, we're not a heck of a lot north west of you. We seeded approx 50% of the acres in 2010.

3) We carry 80% crop insurance, this helps maintain reference margins for the program and gives more than adequate cost recovery. If you were hit hard in 2002 and 2004 you should have received enough to cover your production costs. Most people snub crop insurance because they feel they cannot insure at a level of profit. Insurance programs will never be more than cost recovery and will never cover the costs of high debt and shinny equipment that some people try to run.

4)Like you, we believe in holding some inventory and using our net worth to minimize risk. It is a good management strategy.

5) I still argue that the forms are not prepared/assessed correctly and many producers don't know what they have/don't have. We deal with a rural office, not downtown Regina where you are and maybe familiar with. They are supposed to offer similar services but the people will be different. The guys in Melfort and Humboldt I have met through presentations and are different. Many of them come from farms or are still part of their family farm operation.

You like driving around the country and gave excellent crop reports. I would really like to hear your thoughts after an hour meeting with the guy I deal with. If you are ever interested, let me know. I honestly think that you and your partners in your operation would view things differently

[JDGreen]

sorry sask99 i get everything but your 80% on crap insurance. The crap insurance program is so ridiculous I dont know how any starting farmer could insure at 80%. My dad hasn't has crap insurance in 14 years and according to my numbers is so far ahead of the crap insurance purchasers (including myself) its staggering. This is on the advice of MNP I might add. Otherwise I mostly agree with your post.

[SASKFARMER3]

Its been a rough couple of months boys. Ranging from Family dying to family sick. Tired of going to funerals. So yea a little negative I guess. But that's life no one said it would be easy. I don't use a napkin and use accrual accounting.
But here is a good one.
Can buy a whole block in Maricopa for less price than 6 quarters in our area.
Which will return more in 10 years. I'm guessing the houses. Now that's positive.
Fighting for years with them finally give up but hey its a deduction. Have a good one.

[SASKFARMER3]

Also JD is correct the Sask Crop Insurance is a disgrace. Just the difference between Alberta and us with fall price adjustment would add thousands to ones guarantee. Only in Alberta.

[SASKFARMER3]

Jd and S3, I did not say crop insurance will work for everyone, S3 asked my opinion. We were guaranteed for approx 27 bus of canola at 80%, barley at 48, wheat low 30's off the top of my head. This provides a decent base to fall back in a touch year like this. If you have not been in crop insurance your whole famr career you may not have good history. You may also be growing crops that you never grew for the 10 years required to establish a base.

I view crop ins like house or life insurance, never want to make a claim but will be glad if/when it happens.

On the latter, at least my estate will be.

Sorry for the family issues S3. Remember success and enjoyment of life is what you make it and trying to remain positive at all times goes a long way. Lost parents a number of years ago so know what you are going through.

[JDGreen]

So how do you suggest a young farmer establish his discount then?? The risk is the program itself when you dont have the discount.