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    #25
    chuckChuck:

    First – throwing new questions at me without addressing mine isn’t what I consider to be “rebuttal and informed discussion”. Rebuttal requires you address an argument already presented, not counter with a different topic; that's deflection and avoidance.

    Be that as it may, I will address your items that relate to my earlier comments – but then I expect you to “rebut” mine.

    You ask: <b>Where is your evidence that the CWB dosen't earn premiums in a single desk pooled price environment? </b>

    My approach to CWB premiums has always been to argue that IF they get premiums, it is for reasons other than the single desk. But also there is no evidence of premiums – quite the opposite.

    Talk to the buyers - they will tell you that they don't pay premiums for Canadian wheat because of the single desk.

    When I look at CWB performance, I look at the cost side of the equation too. The CWB reported that in 08-09 it got premiums on wheat amounting to $6.65/tonne on every tonne sold. The Federal Grain Monitor data shows that in that same year, the CWB “cost” was $10.14/tonne. This is a number the CWB provides the Monitor – the CWB insisted that it would provide this information rather than have the Monitor pull it out of other reports or estimates – it includes CWB administration costs plus direct marketing costs. So if you’re going to take issue with it, talk to the CWB.

    So, according to the CWB, it cost 10.14 to get a premium of 6.65. The net is negative $3.49. This does not include the increased cost of handling over what the non-CWB markets charge. That’s a different argument we can have at another time.

    The other way to look at it is to look at the price the CWB got in comparison to "the market" over the crop year. I can’t speak for you, but if I’m going to hire someone to market my grain for me, I expect them to get me better than average prices. When you compare the final pool return to whatever relevant market you want, it is lower than the crop year average for the crop year. In fact, if you compare CWB farmgate returns to US prices over a crop year, in most years <b>the CWB pool return is lower than the lowest US price of the year</b> and never is it much higher than the lowest US price. The US farmer can sell his whole crop at the lowest price of the year and still get a better price than you through the CWB.

    Then start adding up the added cost of on farm storage, interest, etc because you had to store CWB grain longer; plus the added interest because you weren’t paid until months later.

    On a net basis, the CWB’s performance (premium) is negative and the more things you include in the analysis, the more negative it becomes. Put another way, the CWB is going to have to come up with much, much larger premiums than they are currently reporting for you as a farmer to get a net premium.

    Question back at you: Where is your evidence that the CWB does earn premiums?

    Comment


      #26
      DePape,

      You must be talking 'Eskimo' AGAIN!

      Trust and Obey... there is no other way... to be happy in the Wheat Board... than to trust and obey.

      How dare you question GOD.

      Comment


        #27
        depape why are you posting the election is over.

        Comment


          #28
          Chuck how much time do you need to answer the questions? Are you actually trying to find verifiable facts to backup any opinions you have? That would be a change.

          Comment


            #29
            Stubble,

            In case you missed it... the CWB affects many of our families and farms 24/7/365.

            The largest factor in lost opportunity... by farm... affecting every crop I market... is the 'elephant' in my Igloo.

            You may not WANT to talk about this elephant... but knowing 'the elephant is in our room' is the first step to resolving the problems it causes...!

            Comment


              #30
              Stubble...he`s not as SHALLOW as you that`s why!!

              Comment


                #31
                stubble:
                Would you rather I didn't post anymore?

                <b>Did you know</b> the CWB will defer (delay) shipping on a contract to a customer, at the customer’s request, at no additional cost? (I've heard they will defer shipment by as much as a year - with no cost to the buyer.)

                Yet farmers have to pay for the privilege and are fined if in default.

                <b>Did you know</b> the CWB will ship to customers higher grades than what the contract specifies, with no increase in price?

                Yet the CWB will often not accept lower grades from farmers, even with a lower price. And if a farmer delivers a lower grade than what was contracted, he is often penalized harshly.

                <b>Did you know</b> the CWB offers credit to customers at “commercial” rates?

                Yet the CWB does not offer credit to farmers (advances are a federal government program - not a CWB program).

                EPOs are a form of credit but come at a huge cost. If you consider the payment above the Initial on an EPO as "credit", the additional upfront payment on a 100% EPO on feed wheat costs an estimated 11.0% (the irony is it's your money in the first place.)

                Incremental payments for deferred delivery on FPCs are, according to the CWB, reflective of the time value of money. They work out to about 0.3%.

                Bottom line - it's better to be a CWB customer than a CWB supplier.

                Comment


                  #32
                  Yes Keep it up John. Almost 33000 hits on video.

                  Comment


                    #33
                    Here is hoping depape keeps up the good work.

                    Whether you believe in the board or not its good reading.

                    For those that are good board supporters, a few questions:

                    Do you really enjoy living off your savings for years?

                    Does it make sense to use other commodities to pay the wheat and durum bills?

                    Does it make sense that you pay for certified personal trainers, day care and other people's kids education rather than your own?

                    And does it really make sense that western canadian farmers carry the debt of other nations? Don't believe me? We haven't seen an increase in durum for 09 crop since August of 09.

                    It seems odd that everyone downstream of the farm gets paid before the farmers. The cwb employees get paid even if they make mistakes, I don't have that luxury. The railways have the freight deducted before the grain sees the inside of a railcar.

                    When my grain is delivered my job is done so why am I the last to be paid whereas others are paid in advance?????

                    Comment


                      #34
                      John Depape's points confirm my suspicions that the alleged price premiums for the CWB are just extra costs ultimately billed to farmers:

                      - Deferred shipping w/o penalty

                      - Grade giveaways

                      - Credit at CWB discount rates

                      Single desk "premiums" are just an accounting fiction created by focusing on only one side of a ledger. The CWB's propaganda department trumpets this as evidence of superior performance when in fact their marketing strategy is no better than that of a common *****.

                      Comment


                        #35
                        ouch... that is blunt.

                        Comment


                          #36
                          Jdepape. I was tied up for a day or so.

                          As far as evidence for premiums what about the work by Kraft, Furtan, Tyrchniewicz (KFT)? Out of date now, but showed a premium.

                          2.Richard Gray's benchmarking study also showed a premium.

                          3. The CWB Board of Directors regularly see sales data that shows premiums over competitors on actual sales.

                          4. Rod Flaman and Ken Ritter changed their position on the single desk after being elected as supporting an open market. Why? Because they saw the benefits of the CWB.

                          Interestingly on the Alberta Agriculture web site they do not have a link to the KFT study or Richard Gray's Benchmarking study. Now why is that? Do they not have the integrity to present both sides of the argument and let farmers decide? Apparently not.

                          The CWB system is not perfect. But neither is the open market. Why do you focus so much on perceived or real problems at the CWB when many of the problems in farming are a result of the increasing cost of production and relatively stagnant prices in all commodities?

                          As I pointed out with my questions in a previous post we need more information and analysis to truly evaluate the performance of the CWB. Unless you can provide that level of information, your claim that the CWB does not earn premiums is inadequate.

                          Another problem I have is you are ascribing costs which are out side of the control of the CWB. The CWB does not set freight rates or other handling costs.

                          You have a clear agenda in criticizing the CWB therefore your analysis is biased. That's okay. We all have our biases.

                          Over the years I have had several farmers tell me it doesn't matter whether the CWB earns premiums or not. They don't like it. Fine. But that is an ideological position not one based on an objective analysis of it's performance.

                          Comment

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