Response to Jdepape on the CWB

[TOM4CWB]

Concerned,

To be clear, the transparent arbitrage function in that market... IS THE ICE Canola futures. It is also CBOT, MGE, & KCBT... which the CWB uses... but fudges with the 'adjustment factor' plus any basis it wishes to extract to pad the pool accounts.

Losses of arbitrage are massive... in these instances... in comparison with the $4/t John brought to our attention.

[oneoff]

Maybe "theory stuff" is vitally importannt too.

[jdepape]

Concerned (Joe):

Excellent question – if you’re talking about the $10.14 I mentioned, it is the costs as reported by the CWB to the Federal Grain Monitor.

On page 80 of the 08-09 Annual Report of the Federal Grain Monitor, it described CWB costs:

“CWB Costs (gross) represent the per-tonne operating costs of each pool account at an in-store export port position, plus the apportioned value of its overall transportation savings.”

This includes CWB administration costs (overhead) plus direct marketing costs (extra freight where applicable, demurrage and despatch, etc). CWB admin costs would definitely NOT be incurred by farmers without the CWB. The other costs might be incurred by the private trade but, unlike the CWB, when a grain company gets hit with demurrage, they eat it (they can’t pass it onto farmers).

To be clear on what CWB costs are being reported by the Grain Monitor, it would be great to see a breakdown. I doubt we ever will though.

[parsley]

" I doubt we ever will though"


Yes, well. So much for math.

And an interesting question would be if the math IS
favourable, does that mean the CWB should be
endorsed with complete abandon?

You see, that's where 'theory' comes in.

You either believe your grain is your grain, or you
don't.

And it also follows, it I want to gift the grain, it's my
business, whether the math looks good or not.

The 'theory' is the principal. You either have them
or you are classed as a 'dependent.'


Pars

[jdepape]

Apparently I was not clear...

"I doubt we ever will though"

This does not place any doubt as to the fact that these are indeed CWB costs we're talking about. Costs that you as farmers would not see in a competitive market without a single desk.

This speaks to the fact that the CWB is not as open as it says it is. And I doubt that it will miraculously "open up" and show its warts - even though we're pressing the point.

But its still worth trying because at the end of the day, it IS your grain.

[parsley]

Both of us pursue marketing choice albeit with different approaches.

I admire your skill at exacting numbers, jdepappe, and I realize that when dealing with rational people or companies or institutions,numbers is what one uses to convince there is a need for change.

Not so with the CWB.

In my experience.

They will tell you anything by way of evasion, omission, vernacular word usages, skipping sections, selected quote, versions, quoting past legislation, using legislation theat iS NOT EVEN PUT INTO FORCE, stalling, well, using any excuse in the book, ignoring,


....any of them to escape change.

The difference between you and I depappe, is that you treat them as if they are going to deal WITH DECENCY.

It is my opinion, ( I am redundant so that the CWB don't sic their lawyers on Agriville)that the CWB are indecent, and deceptive because they work for their own interests, not farmers.

My opinion is garnered from my personal experience from my personal association with them, as well as the experiences shared by other farmers, with me.

Thanks for all your work, depappe. it IS appreciated very much.

Parsley

[TOM4CWB]

John,

You are missing something.

While not all grainco's charge extra for risk on problems at the port all the time... it is very often a part of a package that is compensation sought through the basis on non-board grains.

In a competitive sellers market... arbitage more likely favours the grower being charged less and tighter handle margins.

If the buyers are in control because of plentiful supply... basis will widen and risk premiums paid out of the basis charged.

The single desk needs neither because it is illegal to avoid the CWB... all grain must be sold through the single desk. Therefore there are no competitive forces keeping CWB charges fair.

[oneoff]

C'mon Tom. Not all grain. You know very well the exceptions that registered seed growers can and do use to their personal advantage. Almost the same with sale of organic grains. What I still want is all those select groups to be arguing that those are the rules that every farmer should enjoy. It seems very hypocritical to me that any seed grower could live with themselves when they stongly advocate keeping selling options from ordinary producers when they are deriving such a small part of their incomes from CWB sales.

[parsley]

Demurrage costs are fair?

Grading costs are fair?

Customs expenses are fair?


Accredited Agent% are fair?

Handlers charges are fair?

Wages are fair?

Maybe you should add: fair, but not to farmers. Pars

[TOM4CWB]

Oneoff;

Headline;

I argue that the same Seed/Organic exemptions be available for Commercial Barley Growers in ALberta...

Guess What happens Oneoff???

Parsley... did you note how many times... I tried to call you on Friday... on my way home from the ABC AGM?

Remember that District 5 resolution we easily passed in Westlock at AGM I told you about???

Guess the ABC resolutions committee did with it?

All the good work John Depape did... proof out the ying yang... Barley acres dropping like flies... That stupid farmer from the outter reaches.

I know... shut up...you fool. You have NEVER marketed any wheat or Barley... in your life. Only the CWB can market grain. STOP.


Thanks for reminding me Chief Commish Lorne.


Now I will be declared to be mentally unstable... and out of the cactus patch I am!

Grab a cookie and run!!!!

[TOM4CWB]

Charlie,

Only the CWB argues that they make life fair!

Thanks for the great presentation in Banff!!!

[oneoff]

Just for those who don't want to talk about it; refuse to admit it to themselves; and those who fear it will harm their arguments:
In the real CWB debate world there are people who enjoy the advantages the CWB affords to themselves and a few hundred or a few thousand in their class. About half of the ones I know are most interested in protecting their personal advantage; and so are the most vocal and outspoken to see that nothing changes to their substancial benefits over surrounding captive CWB growers who can not use those exemptions (and near exemptions).