Triffid Bites a Hunk out of Pocketbooks

[bucket]

Its quite amazing that the people that have the intelligence to insert a gene into a seed microscopically (in other words, very smart people), can't trace where their seed ended up.

Even though there is a system in place for that to happen.

This flax thing has been talked to death. The flax council,cfia,saskflax, certified seed growers have taken our money to ensure this wouldn't happen and now they won't accept responsibility that it did.

Its like the financial mess that happen in the states. The banks knew what was going on, let it happen and then they needed the government and taxpayers to bail them out. And then gave themselves bonuses.

Anyone involved in the triffid affair from the seed developer to the seed growers who grew it and sold it are responsible. And for the seed growers that trickled it through their supplies to gain an extra 50 cents should be out of business.

[charliep]

Perhaps you are right.

Could one of you answer wd9's question.

Is triffid flax considered safe for feed food and the environment in Canada?

One world only. Yes or no.

[bucket]

The answer according to cfia, as they are the ones that approved the variety, is yes.

And until the EU starves a bit for flax they won't say yes.

Interesting, and this was suggested to saskflax, this is a year the industry could rid itself of triffid flax.

How? Well, with the lower than expected production and all flax tested they could offer a premium to get rid of it. The government to date has spent 10 million dollars to the very organizations that caused the problems. Why not just premium up the flax, pay the money to farmers to sell their flax?

Otherwise all this becomes is a vice for the flax council, saskflax et all to continue to ask for money to "fix" the problem.

The only way to fix it is to get it out of farmers bins. All flax grown from the 2010 crop forward, due to the idiotic protocols, is now triffid free, right? That was the fix, wasn't it?

So now all that has to happen is the pre-2010 crop has to be removed from the bins? Understand now why it was an idiotic protocol. The problem is still there.

[bucket]

The money to solve the problem would have been better spent investigating the crushing industry for expansion.

The chinese made a killing by buying triffid,crushing it, and selling the oil more than likely to the EU.

Canada has to start taking advantage of these opportunities, instead of throwing 10 million down the drain to organizations that won't accept responsibility.

[bluefargo]

Charlie
I for one appreciate your reasoned comments on this topic.
I find my one typing finger incapable of standing up to the tsunami of BS on this topic.
I find the 'hate on' for seed growers particularly irksome. For the life of me I can't see how seed growers have benifitted from this mess. In my own case it has cost me a pile of money.I am serously thinking of getting out of the pedigree flax seed business.
Thanks for being the voice of common sense and reason

[parsley]

Yes
Yes charliep
The government does.
You do
Most do

For all the players who are slowly consolidating for control of crops, very clever, calculating professioanls I might add, all of them will argue with vigor, that modification is safe, that flax is safe. Wheat safe. Buckeheat safe.

Do farmers actually know how any seed has been modified? Or do we simply know what we are told?"

'It's safe' is a "today' answer for today's instant thinkers, and takes away the focus from the real issue... that the consolidation and control of agriculture is producing food we are not sure of, it may or may not be what it is purported to be.

farmers don't even know what is being modified, do we. We just accept the 'fact' presented as true.

Control can be good in some ways,...or can be a total disaster when bottom lines dictate ethical considerations such as food safety which has always been my concern.

Food...The building blocks of children.

It's up to farmers to question the prevalent consolidation movents, in my humble opinion, because government and corporations will not.

For example, the people who are pushing the green revolution for alternate power in Alberta are also looking towards flax fibe/feed as a source for power, aren't they. Guaranteed supply from all crops is necessary, is what I envisage.

Meantime, a perfectly well developed oil industry is being replaced by windmills etc.

Ridley's, who has been buying out every feed company that isn't in hiding, also looks to feed-flax for their feed additive business, They have partners. A little dab of this in a specifically modified grain and a little dab of that in another modified grain you seed, mix up the concoction and voila, that becomes a specialized feed. Seed growers will work with feed manufacturers.

It also holds irreversible dangers to which many planners will not want to discuss.

Heading towards domination in NA, is not necessarily a bad thing by Ridley's. So did Sears at one time, and Walmart today.

But if there is a proliferation of gene stacking, (which lies in the future if you have have ever followed through from a to be to c,) the fallout, as was shown in the Triffid experiment, is not fixable. It's permanant.

Nature is hard to turn off. Your food is not a whim. Your body is a well designed motor that will only process those specific foods it has slowly adapted itself to recognize and process and utilize.

Alberta is researching proteins, I believe, charliep, and it is an absolutely amazing field. Just studying proteins. Your body utilizes more than proteins, though, and they in time will be studied.

Researching is costly for society, and is not particularly profitable for scientists.

My observation is that today, too many scientists and governments are more impressed by the lure of profit as opposed to dedicating themselves for high income pay, to the overwhelming awe of knowledge.

So my personal answer, charliep, and I realize it has absolutely zero value in the scheme of things, is that down the road in a few years, farmers will look back to this point in time and say, 'They didn't tell us what they had done to the seed we planted. If I known...."

Farmers are the last line of defense for food. You'll call me silly..... until you get sick, Pars

[checking]

That's the ultimate question, charliep. Is it safe?. It was the big question in the "Marathon Man", also. Feel like boring down a root canal to test a fresh nerve to see if it's safe?

I'd start my dental experiment with the bucket "list" (flax council, cfia, saskflax, certified seed growers). Then, to verify, I'd run it again. Maybe add wd9!

[parsley]

bluefargo,

A lot of seed growers, including organic ones, have not been a part of the Triffid problem. Tom4CWB wasn't either.

And it is unfair that you along with everyone else got hit by the Triffid storm.

As a seed grower, could you agree that:

Specific modified/fortified/etc varieties be tied to ownership?
Parsley

[bucket]

bluefargo

Do you know seed growers that grew and sold Triffid flax all the while knowing the industry and customers didn't want it?

If you did, don't throw your sad money losing story at me. Throw at the guys in your industry that ****ed the entire industry and now want the farmers (your cutomers) to pay for the clean up.

[charliep]

Perhaps where we disagree.

Actually think the industry including the flaxseed council has done a pretty good job of taking a bad situation and making it somewhat liveable (not perfect). Can't go back and redo the past. All the industry can do is look after the present and prepare for the future. The challenge is if there are shortcomings/better approaches, what they? I suspect good ideas will always be welcomed.

My concern is also looking ahead and learning from the triffid experience. Genetic engineering - expensive and risky from a market access perspective. Lots of other plant breeding tools in the tool box above conventional plant breeding and getting to be more all the time. Funding plant breeding in Canada and regulatory structure around plants with novel traits are key issues for discussion.

[parsley]

"There's no reason for flax to be put under the CWB. Its already under the Flax Council"

Take your thoughts one step forward, oneoff:

1. Wheat...you cannot export wheat without a CWB license, which can be refused, or which always demands a Western penalty paid (buyback).

Flax: I can export flax anytime and there is no legal licensing mechanism in place to stop me.

In other words, producers have an out.

2. Feed:
World's commercial feed industry produces an estimated 600M tonnes world's largest with volume estimated at well over 300M tons with $30B annual sales.

Wheat and Barley: Only feed companies get to export manufactured feed automatically. I cannot export a load of feed wheat.

Flax: You and I can sell feed-flax anywhere in the world. And the feed market is lucrative.

You will see that Jane Goodridge,who is also a Board member of the Flax Council's big fat baby, was in China chatting about feed way back in 2003:

http://eprints.jcu.edu.au/10396/1/10396_Zhou_%26_Tian_2003_frontpages.pdf


Legislated control is onerous for farmers.
But if a company wants to make good coin, it is prudent to have flax placed under legislated control for a cheap, captive supply. No one can control 100,000 farmers each going in a different direction, but you can control a few greedy politician with a hefty political contribution...which is also a tax writeoff.

Just being practical. Pars

[bucket]

charliep

As stated earlier, why not send the government money to investigate more crush capacity or to the farmers to get the flax out of their bins. This would be the year with low production to flush the system.

If farmers have to pay the testing and the cleanup costs, at least they should be compensated.

You also realize, the government money is going to develop another variety of modified flax to supposedly cleanup the mess we have now. How do our customers feel about this?

The question was asked on one of those teleconferences if the industry is benchmarking the levels of triffid as there may have been a major flush of triffid over the last decade and the EU may just be catching the trailing end. The cleanup might be done but if you don't benchmark you can't tell if that is happening. The sad part is they should have been benchmarking with the available tests all along to say the risk is negligible, as over the last decade the levels are now very small.

The failure of the flax council and the seed industry to regulate the problems associated with triffid is the bigger problem. They should have had every seed grower that had access to triffid in a second via computer and traced it all back. They said they did it a decade ago(there was a press release about it) so now they can do the trace again and fine those responsible. That money could go to the testing costs burdening farmers that ever grew flax.

Question asked - never answered. So I don't think they have done a good job other than securing government dollars for their organizations.

[parsley]

Yes, conventional have already moved on to food charliep, in case you missed it.They never sqwacked a peep, did they? And hired flaxslingers gag words if they try to escape.

I'm not so sure if any Triffid owners actually learned anything though because there were no repercussions for them; instead they were downloaded on the rest of us.

And that is why I am concerned about basic food.

When you eamine the actions of the Government of Alberta, they are not at all interested in respecting landowners' rights; in fact they have gone to great lengths to work against landowners simply to support The Green Revolutionists who stand to gain great profits from green technology.

The "new" suppliers of electricity have been less than forthright, and folks in the Government have been manipulative, devious and underhanded.

Now it's only power. I can live with a windmill. I prefer oil. I can live with ethanol in my truck. I prefer gas. I can live with fibre power. I prefer oil.

Simply because there is lots of oil in Canada and all our equiomentand appliances are geared to oil power.

But food....that, my dear charliep, is where I get really really pissy. All governments and industry have track records similar to rats with verbal diarrhea. And then you find them gnawing on your property.....

And you know how much I like to eat. Parsley

[parsley]

You make a great point, bucket, why haven't the crushers been grinding their way through Triffid?

There is verified Triffid in flax in a SWP Terminal in Thunder Bay. Ovbviously, Canadian export testing was either overlooked or the books fudged.

But they got caught.

Was anyone fired? Was CFIA chastised? Was the CGC slapped? The Flax Council chastised?

No, they apllied for and got tax money. Tells you the state of affairs.

Is Viterra presently buying conventional #1 to blend out the Triffid?

Ask questions.

There is NO accountability, is there.

We cannot depend upon these kind of people to test our food. Pars

[parsley]

And bucket,

The Flax Councils all know who every Triffid grower is. They know exactly who delivered Triffid to both the elevators, and the Terminal

Yes, they do. Pars