Regulation, Procedures, and Rules for Triffid

[wd9]

So is it possible that since triffid is in 35 countries, at the CDC, and has been floating around for at least a decade in Canada there is no Canadian Organic Flax?

For illustration 1 ppt is approximately 1 canola seed in 100 B trains. And even that is a long way from zero as per organic specification.

[parsley]

"So is it possible"

Of course.
Anything is possible.

It is also possible that a stealth terminator gene hiding in xp45-flax, created in some obscure lab in the China Instiute at the U of Alberta, :<) , and multiplied on wd's farm, is slowly killing its' way over the Prairies, and wd is the only one with a patented flaxseed which he will release in 2012.

Testing is important.

German tests and USA tests done on Canadian organic flax, that I have heard about directly, so far, have come back negative.

I have not spoken directly to anyone tested in Saskatchewan.

Germany in particular, are viewed as good at what they do, by organics, and are very aggressive about testing when shipments arrive and also after the product is manufactured.

Sophisticated equipment they use, identifies the presence of chemical resulting from spray drift: identifies the presence of Events in all grain; is able to identify which Canadian canola Events are present in mustard in the mayonnaise slathered on meatballs, as a result of pollen drift transferred from canola to mustard plants in the farmer's field.

They are able to identify which Industrial Flax Events from Saskatchewan farmers and shipped by Viterra to a German manufacturer are present in jumping horses' rations in Frankfurt.

Linseed grown for linoleum will be eaten in flax bread in Winnipeg tommorow morning.

Is traceability possible? Yes.

How is it working for Canada's food Inspectors? Good

How is it working for Canada's food eaters? Bad

Testing has become a game of hiding, doctoring, delaying, chasing cars, confusion and playing word games, and calculated deception.

I have no time for it, wd.

I press the issue of compensation for destroying organic sales....not because I eye up money, but rather because when compensation is put on the table, when responsibility is put on the table, all of a sudden players pay attention, saying, "What, me pay?"

Innovation holds promise. "Moving forward", as charliep says and says, lol, is inevitable.

But food is too important to NOT view the ramifications of modifying basic food.. what it hopefully can be OR might unfortunately become:
guesswork,
excitement,
irreversible,
unaccountable,
potential,
harmful,
healthy
unhealthier
moneymaker
national financial disaster
responsible
irresponsible
life enhanicng
life destroying
and so on

Farmers are front line. We know what risk is. We have the biggest stake of all.

Every breeder growing modified plots should be listed on a website. Neighboring farmers are their allies, NOT their enemies. We are valuable for watching for traits, weeds, crosses and so on.

One of the most important aspects of science is to acknowledge it is risk and treat it like risk.

As an organic grower in wd's world-lab, I am your backup point. Backup farm, so to speak, just as are seed stock rooms storing original seed in many countries. A farmer's point of reference.

Cell stems.

Backup has an important function in the world of flax; in the world of all crops, doesn't it. Hope we are NOT contaminated and won't be.

Testing is only as good as the rules and ethics that govern it.
Pars

[charliep]

Just curious in your world how you deal with mother nature based
mutationns - example might be a mycotoxin/mold that becomes more
virulent and poses a human health concern/market access issue.

[parsley]

The world is old like me and slow like me. LOL Mother Nature is a she.LOL

There are indeed, mutations.

There also seems to be a natural order of things where a mere mutant castor bean plant does not cross pollinate an entire 1500 acre crop of tobacco in one summer. An albino may cause significant change in a family in one generation, but not significant change in a country.

Mutation seems to works its' way slowly into its species and into its' environment, as a carfully as does a cat settling into a stall on a 40 below night between cows and horses.

Very different approach from man's impatient reaction after he feeds 700 heifer calves growth hormones, watches them bred, surprisngly, at four months, curses some for dying when birthing,, and then demands if the vet could invent medication for the few survivors because they aren't 'taking their calves' like they should.

Your world is in such a hurry, charliep, Pars

[oneoff]

Pars You don't have to convince me that those responsible for harm should be accountable. You do write well enough and have more than enough smarts to simply say that organic flax (like any other commercial flax) has been compromized by a widespead low level contamination of a Triffid gene. There is no way to currently test for levels of 0%; all the way up to and even beyond 0.01% (100% of the time). When your customers are expecting zero percent and you knowingly and deliberately lead them to believe it is Triffid-free; you are deliberately deceiving customers. I do not expect arguments on that point from someone who has been as clear as you have on the importance of 100% pure foods.
Unfortunately your goal can never be achieved. We are all going to have to put up with a little bit of everything in anything. We may work hard to reduce those levels; but you should know they can never be eliminated.
If there is no agreement on such points; then it is a lost cause repeating basic principles which should be accepted as common ground. Surely we may spend our time debating issues which have debatable points.

[parsley]

oneoff,

canola:
GM events present from cross-pollination from all neighbors, if I tried to grow a canola crop in 2011, would result in prob a 90% presence. LOL

Flax:
But I have to say, that there is still organic flax that shows a 0% level. Next year less, and 5 years from now...it's deja-vous canola again.

Not being devious. Just have a different view. Pars

[oneoff]

Pars You are starting to miss points. What good is traceability if you can't possibly possibily guarantee it's purity. I want proof before I pay organic premiums or any other premium for something no better than conventional food. Just being a good salesperson just doesn't cut it. Show mw your zero percent test; and I'm no where convinced that even a negative test for 0.001% Triffid is any better than a current test at 0.01%
You have been quite adament that you won't stand for anything poorer than 100% pure food. When organic farmers have consistently used the same seed supplies as their conventional counterparts; and there has been proof that contamination is widespead; and at very low levels and most certainly at currently non detectable levels in flax that has been shipped to all corners of the world; and even in seedstocks at universities; pedigreed and registered growers; then it must be admitted is/could be basically everywhere and possibly anywhere; never to to separated again.
You might as well eat my flax Pars; because yours has every bit the same chance of containing some Triffid as mine does.
Or stick to potatoes. What did you think of my potato explanation? That is where we could possibly agree. Would you like to agree on potatoes?

[oneoff]

Charlie asks a lot of questions. He also carefully couches himself; and seldom takes a stand on any issue. Any reply just brings up more questions; as his peers continue to unilaterally make the changes that are sold/forced upon producers.

[oneoff]

"But I have to say, that there is still organic flax that shows a 0% level"

Geez Pars; talk about missing the point.
I think you are insinuating that you are preserving pure seed stocks too. Well don't be counting on that "organic flax that shows a 0% level". Just what intuition are you counting on; and/or who brainwashed you and/or what company has that test available?
I am getting close to giving up on using reasoning and logic.

[parsley]

I have to go back and reread what you wrote as I'm watching a movie so maybe I'm incoherent or just plain dumbing down. Prob the latter. Yes, cole... LOL Pars

[wd9]

Seems the organic spec needs to be realistic in a realistically promiscuous outcrossing world. Setting the spec to zero is the biggest financial problem to all farmers. Change that and it all goes away. But then what would parsely go on and on about?

There is nothing wrong with HT canola or any other crops and are safe for food feed and the environment. What it isn't safe against is politics and ridiculous rules.

[parsley]

Good moveie. LOL

1. Lot of organic growers have saved their own seed, for two or three decades, particlary in southeast Saskatchewan, a few of them for 40 years.

2. Lots of organic growers do not use or clean grain at any convenetional facilities, they have their own cleaning plant, including gravity tables.

3. Lots of organic growers have NEVER purchased breeder, or pedigreed seed from Registered seed growers or from the Universities.

4.Lots of organic growers fill and seal their own containers, for export, or directly to buyers.

5. Lots of organic growers never ever deliver to an elevator or terminal.

6. Lots of organic growers have recieved back international testing results at 0%. In the case of flax oil, some companies test after it is pressed as well as before it it pressed.

7. Lots of organic growers bag grain, sew it closed, pallet it, cover it with plastic and then ship it.

8. All in all, at the present time, I think there is Triffid-free organic flax. Pars