Regulation, Procedures, and Rules for Triffid

[parsley]

The world is old like me and slow like me. LOL Mother Nature is a she.LOL

There are indeed, mutations.

There also seems to be a natural order of things where a mere mutant castor bean plant does not cross pollinate an entire 1500 acre crop of tobacco in one summer. An albino may cause significant change in a family in one generation, but not significant change in a country.

Mutation seems to works its' way slowly into its species and into its' environment, as a carfully as does a cat settling into a stall on a 40 below night between cows and horses.

Very different approach from man's impatient reaction after he feeds 700 heifer calves growth hormones, watches them bred, surprisngly, at four months, curses some for dying when birthing,, and then demands if the vet could invent medication for the few survivors because they aren't 'taking their calves' like they should.

Your world is in such a hurry, charliep, Pars

[oneoff]

Pars You don't have to convince me that those responsible for harm should be accountable. You do write well enough and have more than enough smarts to simply say that organic flax (like any other commercial flax) has been compromized by a widespead low level contamination of a Triffid gene. There is no way to currently test for levels of 0%; all the way up to and even beyond 0.01% (100% of the time). When your customers are expecting zero percent and you knowingly and deliberately lead them to believe it is Triffid-free; you are deliberately deceiving customers. I do not expect arguments on that point from someone who has been as clear as you have on the importance of 100% pure foods.
Unfortunately your goal can never be achieved. We are all going to have to put up with a little bit of everything in anything. We may work hard to reduce those levels; but you should know they can never be eliminated.
If there is no agreement on such points; then it is a lost cause repeating basic principles which should be accepted as common ground. Surely we may spend our time debating issues which have debatable points.

[parsley]

oneoff,

canola:
GM events present from cross-pollination from all neighbors, if I tried to grow a canola crop in 2011, would result in prob a 90% presence. LOL

Flax:
But I have to say, that there is still organic flax that shows a 0% level. Next year less, and 5 years from now...it's deja-vous canola again.

Not being devious. Just have a different view. Pars

[oneoff]

Pars You are starting to miss points. What good is traceability if you can't possibly possibily guarantee it's purity. I want proof before I pay organic premiums or any other premium for something no better than conventional food. Just being a good salesperson just doesn't cut it. Show mw your zero percent test; and I'm no where convinced that even a negative test for 0.001% Triffid is any better than a current test at 0.01%
You have been quite adament that you won't stand for anything poorer than 100% pure food. When organic farmers have consistently used the same seed supplies as their conventional counterparts; and there has been proof that contamination is widespead; and at very low levels and most certainly at currently non detectable levels in flax that has been shipped to all corners of the world; and even in seedstocks at universities; pedigreed and registered growers; then it must be admitted is/could be basically everywhere and possibly anywhere; never to to separated again.
You might as well eat my flax Pars; because yours has every bit the same chance of containing some Triffid as mine does.
Or stick to potatoes. What did you think of my potato explanation? That is where we could possibly agree. Would you like to agree on potatoes?

[oneoff]

Charlie asks a lot of questions. He also carefully couches himself; and seldom takes a stand on any issue. Any reply just brings up more questions; as his peers continue to unilaterally make the changes that are sold/forced upon producers.

[oneoff]

"But I have to say, that there is still organic flax that shows a 0% level"

Geez Pars; talk about missing the point.
I think you are insinuating that you are preserving pure seed stocks too. Well don't be counting on that "organic flax that shows a 0% level". Just what intuition are you counting on; and/or who brainwashed you and/or what company has that test available?
I am getting close to giving up on using reasoning and logic.

[parsley]

I have to go back and reread what you wrote as I'm watching a movie so maybe I'm incoherent or just plain dumbing down. Prob the latter. Yes, cole... LOL Pars

[wd9]

Seems the organic spec needs to be realistic in a realistically promiscuous outcrossing world. Setting the spec to zero is the biggest financial problem to all farmers. Change that and it all goes away. But then what would parsely go on and on about?

There is nothing wrong with HT canola or any other crops and are safe for food feed and the environment. What it isn't safe against is politics and ridiculous rules.

[parsley]

Good moveie. LOL

1. Lot of organic growers have saved their own seed, for two or three decades, particlary in southeast Saskatchewan, a few of them for 40 years.

2. Lots of organic growers do not use or clean grain at any convenetional facilities, they have their own cleaning plant, including gravity tables.

3. Lots of organic growers have NEVER purchased breeder, or pedigreed seed from Registered seed growers or from the Universities.

4.Lots of organic growers fill and seal their own containers, for export, or directly to buyers.

5. Lots of organic growers never ever deliver to an elevator or terminal.

6. Lots of organic growers have recieved back international testing results at 0%. In the case of flax oil, some companies test after it is pressed as well as before it it pressed.

7. Lots of organic growers bag grain, sew it closed, pallet it, cover it with plastic and then ship it.

8. All in all, at the present time, I think there is Triffid-free organic flax. Pars

[parsley]

The point of organics is to value add as much as possible ON the farm, and then sell GM-free product DIRECTLY to the end user. Pars

[parsley]

GM Grain modifiers spread contagion through stealth.

So much of the biotech industry operates in an environment of practiced secrecy because it is neither trusted/embraced very much by farmers or consumers.

Given labelling, most consumers would consider a "genetically modified" label akin to a '30% herpes" label, which is why there is no labelling.

"It just don't sell, honey," and GM grain modifiers know it.

When flax GM modifiers and the Flax Council ruined overseas Flax markets for everyone by knowingly and arrogantly not following the pre-accepted "No GM' rules of trade, and that same arrogance followed its' unmitigatred gall to tell overseas and export buyers how stupid they are; that the EU iotself is the reason that the flax market is in the toilet


GM Grain Cloners like yourself will claim "HT canola or any other crops and are safe for food feed and the environment" in spite of the fact the buyer has specifically stated they do not want what GM modifier-Cloners are trying to force him to buy.

And the EU was clear right from the getgo.


A: And how can GM Grain Cloners guarantee safety?
A: Because the biotech industry change their name, and cut and run at the first sign of trouble.

GM Grain Cloners are not at all afraid to disparage rules if the rule's requirmements cannot be met by them.

Nor are cloners the least bit reticent nor regretfull to ruin an entire organic industry who originally worked very hard to establish an overseas market in the first place.

"What it isn't safe against is politics" you say?

Yes, well, wd.

I will give you full credit for understanding politics; particularly the politics of 'hit with contamination' and 'run from responsibility "

And all with tax dollars. Parsley

[oneoff]

"Lots of organic growers have recieved back international testing results at 0%."

You can have several good points in a row and then you come up with a dumb statement like the above. It completely destroys your credability on not only that point; but also makes a person question whether you are being truly sincere on anything you have ever printed "Lots of organic growers have recieved back international testing results at 0%".
That is the test that we have all been looking for. If only we knew what you are talking about.
I call bull shit.

[oneoff]

And my comment above also applies to every registered seed grower who has ever advertisised his product as Triffid free. And the same applies to the industry and the Flax Council etc. which claims to be well on the road to ridding the world of the Triffid gene.
Another half dozen iternerations and you will haave absolutely everyone convinced; if only because it has been repeated so many times. No matter how many times you rewrite history; a little bit of Triffid will always be with us; and we will never get the level to zero percent until there really is a test for zero percent. And not even an agri-viller has access to that yet; let alone anyone in the world having the resolve and perserverance to reach that goal.

[parsley]

Growers send samples of grain, quite often two large bags, to an international genetic testing company. there are several of them who have specialized equipment and perform ALL the tests.

There are a couple of companies who test organics who will be accepted as a qualified tester in established organic markets.

Some growers sent samples to more then one company. They have recieved full, timely reports.

Some companies have sometimes done genetic testing after the oil is pressed.

The tests are expensive.

Logs are kept on test results which must be submitted for export or processing. Anomalies or complaints are logged.

So far, organic buyers are confident in the protocol and equipment used,and the test results.

Obviously EU and NA buyers still consider the possibility of the Triffid risk still low enough for still buying the product.

If there is no meaningful effort to lessen Triffid's spread, perhaps the organic flax market will go the way of the canola market and another oil will take the place of flax.

In the meatime, organics will continue to do its' best to remain detatched from Triffid contamination possibilities.

If you are not satisfied, as an organic buyer, then I suggest you shop where you have full confidence. Pars

[oneoff]

Pars: Your last post contains not one shred of worthwhile information. When you provide at least the name of one company that tests for zero percent, absolutely Triffid free flax; then we will be able to start to verify that those companies are reputable and not just taking organic producers money and telling your industry and consumers what they hope to hear. Your explanation has "SCAM" written all over it. Exactly what are the names and addresses of the referred to companies. If it is expensive then what is the precise cost. If there are two bags of samples then what exactly are the sizes. If tests are performed then exactly what are the tests. I suppose that those companies won't test conventional flax because that may contaminate their equipment. I'll bet that the company you refer to doesn't have any equipment to test for Triffid-free because as far as I know (and everyone else knows) none of your vague and comforting explanation exists on the face of this earth.

I truly hope you do indeed know what you are talking about Pars. Please confine your answer to the Triffid-free tests you know about; because I too have some detective skills that I'm prepared to apply to this key question.