EU Triffid (zero tolerance) vs. Negative Triffid Test Result vs. Consequences for All Crops

[oneoff]

Pages of debate over this topic are buried in this forum. Could it be that the illogical and erroneous claims of Triffid free seed by some seed growers; and claims of 0% Triffid contamination in organic flax; and industry and Flax Couuncil reports about eliminating Triffid contamination all stem from the same faulty logic.

This link leads us to an ISO 17025 certified German Laboratory called "Genetic ID" pagee

http://www.genetic-id.com/Pages_Link/Test-for-GM-Flax-FP967.aspx

This quote appears:

"Because neither a safety assessment by the EU nor an application for approval has been submitted for this GMO, zero tolerance applies. This means that any raw material or flax/linseed derivative analysed to be positive for FP967/CDC Triffid is not marketable in the EU"



Perhaps this two line quote provides all the ingredients that hasty persons require to jump to completely self serving and wrong conclusions. I refer to those who believe they have Triffid-free seed stocks; are selling tested 0% Triffid organic flax; and spokespersons who are polluting the printed word and airwaves with Triffid information that defies facts and logic about "ridding" flax of the Triffid trait.



There are two sentenses in that quote.

It doesn't mean that a negative test equates to zero presence of Triffid contamination. Logic says that Triffid content between zero and the test sensitivity will most of the time be reported as a negative test. But it is clear that unless you consider one in ten thousand to be zero or nothing to be concerned about; then you're probably eating the same Triffid content as the rest of the world. The first line of the quote clearly defines what is acceptable in the EU. No one can sugar coat that.


Does any ISO certified testing lab say that any sample contains no FP967/CDC Triffid content? You may be brainwashed enough to think that is so; and worse still may be brainwashing others to believe that organic flax and registered and pedigreed seed contains no GM material ; but its pretty evident that all ISO 17025 labs are fully validated to the same standards; even European and German labs.
Welcome to eating GM foods; and the real probability that now that contamination is widespread and exported to dozens of countries; and no method to detect traces below 0.01% in organic or conventional food; that you run the same risk of ingesting; inbibing; contacting; smelling and seeing every conceivable flax product with traces of Triffid for the rest of your life. Future seed supplies will always have a trace of this genetic material too. And please don't just dismiss me based on the probably inconsequential unknown health risks of Triffid. I am concerned about the precident that Triffid has set for Canada' and the lessons that have not apparently been learned.
Welcome to the real world.

Now bring on the GM wheat. Have we learned nothing? .......Is this premature and will there be regrets coming soon; and lasting forever.

[wd9]

The worst part of all this is that there is nothing wrong with any of the GMO crops or events originally certified safe for food feed and the environ that are present in some finite quantity in all crops sold today.

[oneoff]

It is wrong to destroy "organic" markets and contaminate the worlds seed stocks so that varieties cannever be true to what they once were.
It is wrong to not be willing to also be held accountable for damages that are bound to happen because of a desire to profit from your bright idea; and its wrong to continue to deceive when you must surely know you are not telling the whole story.

[parsley]

This is an October 4th, 2009 Sensitivity description of T-nos Triffid Flax test by Genetic ID


http://www.genetic-id.com/Pages_Link/CDCTriffidFlax-WhitePaper-091004.aspx

Pars

[ColevilleH2S]

Show me a study where Triffid was proven to be detrimental to human health. There are none.

This is a trade issue, and nothing else. The reality of the ban plays well with the EU farmer types who have their competition shut-out. And the innuendo of the GMO-scary thing plays well with the uninformed EU urban types. It is a win-win for their politicians. Why would we expect anything else?

The EU will milk this for all it is worth. Expect more of the same.

[parsley]

This is a 16/09/09 document wuith additional information from
Chemisches und Veterinäruntersuchungsamt

Freiburg

State Institute for Chemical and Veterinary Analysis, Freiburg

Detection of genetically modified linseed in food samples -

Read it for yourself. I have a really hard time getting my head around the testing. Not being evasive,oneoff, just dumb head filled with flu so it's dumber than ever..

I carried the notion from Triffid Day One that T-nos was a special test that provided an automatic
"yes,Triffid is present " or
"no,Triffid is definitely not present"

I will try and better understand what test papers technically mean. I find them extremley complicated.

http://www.ua-bw.de/uploaddoc/cvuafr/gm_linseed_further_analytical_informations.pdf

I have been told that, in the past, flax tests have been often been carried out in EU at that end, upon arrival, and they are more stringent than ones done at this end. Maybe an expensive private lab test audit?

I personally know farmers who have been contacted from EU directly/USA directly, asking about procedures on Saskatchewan farm. It's happened on this farm and it's pure buyer to farmer Q&A exchange.

Trust me, they're fussy.

The combination of testing and the AUDIT TRAIL of the grain, the combination, is what fosters trust in organics. They are inseparable.

I'll try and check at the buyers end during business hours for updated testing procedures.

I am not trying to be evasive or bullshit. Pars

Pars

[parsley]

Intersting comments abput Canada from:

The Triffid case: A short résumé on the re-discovery of a de-registered
GMO
Gunther Schmidt & Broder Breckling
(Chair of Landscape Ecology, University of Vechta, Germany –
gschmidt@iuw.uni-vechta.de)


"It has to be expected flax seed buyers will have to subscribe a liability waiver to prevent
seed producer from possible claims of compensation."

http://www.gmls.eu/beitraege/GMLS2_Schmidt-Breckling.pdf

Pars

[parsley]

CGC in Europe:

http://ec.europa.eu/food/committees/regulatory/scfcah/modif_genet/sum_19102009_en.pdf

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

We went through this last spring.

The ISO test clearly states that the sample tested had no triffid.

In no way does this mean there was no triffid in the total lot that was sampled and tested. I told growers this... 3 folks bought seed out of the dozens who called, less than 1000bu sold from 10,000 grown.

This is why I dumped the rest of our pedigreed flax. $1500 on testing to find I had no more idea after the 7th test... than when I began testing. every lot had a negative result. A negative result means a very low level... not that it is zero.

[TOM4CWB]

The only way to know if that lot of seed is zero... IS TO TEST THE WHOLE LOT. OF COURSE THAT IS ABSURD... BECAUSE THEN THERE IS NOTHING LEFT OF THE SEED LOT TO PLANT!!!

[TOM4CWB]

THE BOTTOM OF THE NEGATIVE TEST FROM EUROFIN GENESCAN SAYS THIS:

"*The results shown in this
report relate solely to the
item submitted for
analysis.
ISO/1 EC 17025
Testing Cert 1940.01"

[charliep]

Perhaps the best arguement for making sure all genetic events are registered in
countries including Europe and the world agrees to a level of tolerances. I note
the EU dones not allow genetically engineered corn but they have registered the
genetic events in them so feed imports are not caught off side with soybeans
(i.e. adventitious presense as dust in soybeans). Europe has a set of rules which
everyone has to follow. If you follow them, then the zero becomes somes a
number.

The introduction of GE wheat will not occur in Canada. Australia is fairly far
down the research road. US another possibility. Actually I think China will be
the first to introduce. Very close to adopting GE corn although controversial
there with consumers.

Perhaps zero is never zero. All tests will have a probability associated with
them. I eat my flaxseed every morning with confidence. I also eat raw spinach
after washing - still can't guarantee no samonella. Suspect neither will kill me.

[parsley]

I have to thank you oneoff, for hitting me on the head with a logic 2x4.

I had always depended upon science, the smart people, to be able to detect Triffid ,reading that ID, according to its' test description would alert for the pesence of Triffid:

"The test specifically detects a transgenic construct-that is present in GMFlax /Linseed FP968 (CDC Triffid) but is not present in unmodified flax"

And it does alert us, if we test each individual seed.

I didn't read it thorughly enough,
or follow through with the reasoning until oneoff forced me to.

But I will still inquire about the 'other' tests that may be effect, which may not be 'on the market'.

Triffid in brown flax cannot ever taken back. Oneoff is absolutely right.

Golden flax is the only alternative that organics can use. And luckily lots of organic growers seed the old German variety of golden flax that has been in use for forty years.

But all of you can see,(even ME now) is there is a much more profound side to the testing issue.

Sheer numbers.

.001% contamination at tom4wb's farm is probably not scarey to many farmers. .001% contamination of all farms in the world becomes profound and intimidating very quickly.

One thing that struck me in the middle of the night, was how awesome Mother Nature is and how hopelessly stupid mans' attempts are to try to domesticate nature.

As futile as a spider trying to breed an elephant isn't it?

And we know man will keep trying to cross with a snake.

So I am pleased to say I will eat your humble pie, oneofff, whoever you are. You have done your homework well and I thank you for it. I have not looked at other testing requiremnts, but I presume, being so pissy, you have them down pat and they all target approx .01

I still owe Duke a euro for a lost interest rate bet on AV. Couple that with eating oneoff's pie and you will realize I am surely a dull-witted loser.

Honestly, though? ...A good way to start a morning, Pars

[TOM4CWB]

pars,

Well thought through.

I agree golden flax does not need to get contaminated if old seed stocks are used.

[wd9]

So lets stop all biotechnology of every kind and not register any new event of any kind so a few acres of crop production can fill the need of market manipulation that only fear mongering and not science can provide thru an unrealistic tolerance setting of zero. Brilliant.

Consequences? How about starvation for one.