Hospitals

[wd9]

Then why not sue?

[parsley]

These concluding comments on theory are an exercise in the outrageously atrocious, meant for prompting charliep to awake at 2PM and kick his bedpost:

Volteface makes a difference to farmers because we may not agree with the theory's foundation. We may be torn by it. Or embrace it.

Farmers have traditionally grown what nations eat. Growing food is an established tradition since the beginning of time, and one considered noble.

But what if what you grow no longer sits well with you? What if the changes in food do not serve humans well? Or cause sickness to many? Or cause targetted genetic harm?

GM is a world wide experiment that is being launched, isn't it?.

We CAN do it, you know. But SHOULD we?

What makes farmers say, "Yes"?
What makes farmers "No"?

Look at theory of the past.
Look at the theory of 2011.


M theory, (or perhaps a new theory founded last Tuesday, or next Tuesday,)will underpin science which influences what is 'cool"

For example, feeding the starving masses cole is so concerned about, bless his noble soul, with miracle yields, is currently cool.

How about genetically modified food warfare?

Or food-neutering.

Selected cerebral enhancement for Ottawa in their broccoli?

Theory underpins what science can represent.

I thought it interesting to ponder what science changing agriculture is based upon.

It's good and it's bad , isn't it?

Are you prepared for the risk? Or gain?

Aborting an entire gender in Zhadistan with genetically modified rice, (because we can), is morally acceptable, in this new order. Then we don't have to supply them with food.

Changing the color of a country's cabbages from green to black because we can, by voting..., IS legitimate because reality is not pleasing.

Supplying poisoned wheat to a specific town filled with crime, because we can, foodbrushes a problem.

Growing primates to the age of 14 months, in a greenhouse, modified to provide specific nourishment for lions designed to chase them and eat them for entertainmant is a novel idea, but acceptable, in a world with no boundaries, no consequences.

Is it fun or is it evil?

How do farmers feel about feeding the primates designer grain?

Every scientific theory presented to you is bound to be revised again and again and again and again, because man is not capable of understanding the "whole"

But world populations have forever, depended upon farmers for food.

No small task, is it. pars

[parsley]

Tom, you were raised in past days threatening/promising moral consequences.

World A
If your cows ravaged a field of seed oats in the middle of the night in 1960, you were taught to make ammends, fix the fence and pay for loss. It was considered a personal responsibility because:

*** Hell was waiting for recruits.
***"What goes round comes round" was taught to you..
*** a handshake was your word.

Today is a different climate.

World B
***Self-disciple is wayward. Responsibility is avoided.
***"There is no hell,dude" says Joe
*** If it feels good, do it. No boundaries. "So, sue me"

Is that a fair observation? pars

[parsley]

"Adequate food production is a necessity, drinking is not. "

"Nothing wrong with alcohol." says Hooey
"It's safe.", says Dooey


And up leaps Stewey, with his Vitamin C pill shoved into his hunk of lime:

"Adequate food production that has been in effect since time memorial is a necessity, GM novel foods are not.

"Nothing wrong with GM novel foods." says Hooey
"It's safe.", says Dooey


Pars

[rockpile]

WhooHoo!!! It's fun to sit back and watch the heavy
weights duke it out. Problem is, the genie is out of
the bottle. No going back. What drives it? The profit
motive - both by the owners of this technology and
by the users. Largely, the consumers are left in the
dark, until a threat to them becomes the news item
for the day. But that day passes and the next news
item comes along. I think the most profound
example (recent) of this was the BSE crisis where, at
the end of the day, 'shoot, shovel and shut up' has
become the accepted practice. But boy did it get
milked by competitors of Canadian beef and
populist govts around the world. Same thing could
be said of Triffid. Really, is Triffid infected linoleum
a threat to my well being? I think though that what
we really need is to add a strong dose of 'Ethics' to
our learning curriculum from which a personal and
collective responsibility could be taught. What I see
mostly is a learned 'all about me' and 'pleading
excuses 101' lifestyle where people just adopt ways
so as not to have to face the really big issues.
My rant for the week! -I'm steamed about having
one of my favourite groups being censured, for
lyrics written 25 years ago, by a quasi-judicial
useless body earning tax payers dollars for telling
us that they'll make subjective decisions on our part
for us so that we don't have to face those tough
choices. Get what I'm saying? This discussion about
altering life as we know it should have been held 25
years ago, too late now!

[ColevilleH2S]

Pars "But world populations have forever, depended upon farmers for food." Not to be nit-picky but you forgot hunting and gathering as a survival technique. But I get your point.

Again Pars, "Every scientific theory presented to you is bound to be revised again and again and again and again, because man is not capable of understanding the "whole" " It is not that man is incapable of understanding the whole (whatever that means). It that way because as new information is gained, old theories need to be revised in it's light. Otherwise what's the point of seeking new knowledge.

Change is the only constant. And humans tend to embrace it because it is our nature to. That is why we as a species have advanced to where we have.

[parsley]

rocky,

Triffid linoluem, no

BUT, the chemical/modified gene in the flax your pregnant grandaughter eats may affect the genes of future Rockys though. Maybe future rockys would all be born with no ears because of an unanticipated glitch from GM flax when fetal cells multiply.

We don't know, because risk doesn't always crash and make noise. It can be subtle.

Hindsight is not a luxury we can afford from gene gong shows. There are still lots of grains that are not modified throughout millions of acres.

Once children happen along, and a human's genetic future is secure, there's skin in the game, isn't there.

With children, we develop some sense of how important geneology can be.
My best, Pars

[parsley]

"It is not that man is incapable of understanding the whole"

Isn't the Universe endless? Time infinite? Change constant. Each action in the universe impacting upon the other in constructed chaos every nano-second is hard to keep up with. Let alone fathom the whole's incessant impact. Science wanting to learn how it works is a noble goal.

[ColevilleH2S]

That kinda reminds me of....

[parsley]

"Otherwise what's the point of seeking new knowledge. " Yup. That's the crux of it, isn't it?

What theory?

In the M theory, everthing including string theory and math et al is dumped into the Mystery Pak.

There are no consequences. you just do whatever you feel like. No morals. No grand scheme. No God. No right. No wrong.

So wouldn't the question be, "Do we forge ahead in all the labs across the world, and "do it" even if it destroys man, it mames goats, it elimiates fleas? Should science has morals? Whose? What is a moral benchmark? Don't ask me, btw. LOL. Pars

[parsley]

Good one, cole. I loved that. LOLOL

[parsley]

Do Elephants have the same worth as you? How about cows?

Man has justified killing animals for his survial as his "god given right" and this has translated into law.

Green Movement don't eat meat because cows are equal to people.

I don't agree, which is funny.

What separates us from other animals? In M, nothing does. pars

[ColevilleH2S]

Your paragraph;

"So wouldn't the question be, "Do we forge ahead in all the labs across the world, and "do it" even if it destroys man, it mames goats, it elimiates fleas? Should science has morals? Whose? What is a moral benchmark? Don't ask me, btw."

Pretty much sums it all up. Absolutes are impossible in this game. There are gray areas for certain but I believe they are smaller than you allege.

I like numbers, and the numbers tell me that in the last 15 or so years that GMO food has been widely eaten, no one has died from it. The number who have died in that same time frame from starvation and or malnutrition is unconscionable. That is why if I had to choose, I'd pick living in a world governed by Monsanto, as opposed to Robert Mugabe.

[parsley]

Yes, I realize you are depending upon novel cropping practices yields to replace?/correct?/defeat? political regimes that don't work in the interests of their citizens, and that's that."Here's a 90bu/acre crop Robert, now be a good boy and don't sever arms" Works like a charm, huh?

Hard to support yout goal with numbers from successful precedents, tho.

So I'll ask this:

If you found there was irreparable harm to genes, to bloodlines, that traced back to certain man made genetic modifications,would you continue on as is, saying, screw it, it's just an acceptable % of harmful effects or would you change your mind and examine the harm as a precedent that could be occurring in other events?, Just curious. Pars

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley,

The beauty of Science in 2011;

If there is a theory of a group of scientists proving x does y:

There is another theory by almost as many scientists proving x has nothing to do with y: it was w that actually caused the problem.

Do we have enough ethics to stand up for truth and justice? Will we respect and defend our neighbours right to decency, self-determination, and freedom?

I truly hope science will respect the individual and their inherent right to exist in peace. If not... we are closer to armageddon than any would care to admit!

WD9, I have found the courts to be a very poor substitute for common sense and justice. If we cannot persuade others of our position with positive actions and outcomes and solutions... we had better use a different approach that better show good will and fairness.

Searching for the solution involves interaction and soul searching!

The beauty of being a human being... and what makes us very different than a cow!!!