Hospitals

[parsley]

Same argument for reproduction? Pars

[checking]

ColevilleH2S.

I don't believe I owe the world my contribution to their receiving three squares/day on the cheap by accepting all your innovative technology.

I know that less is more, and shortages are good for my bottom line. You may not see it that way. Fine, so be it, but I believe I will continue to walk.

However, your "No" answer still leaves the Parsley group screwed.

It leaves me dollars short on my flax when EU Greenpeace tests and finds your ultimate solution not so final.

[parsley]

In human reproduction, there are subtleties that effect gene formation.

We have a set of robust identical twin in our family, male, high birthweights and healthy, which is a very personally interesting phenomena for me to ask questiona about.

They were actually scienticially tested and share 99.999% the same genes.

One fertilized egg, for an unknown reason, split in half. Why not 100% identical, scientists ask?.

It's a question that scientists puzzle over, and are eager to solve. And ID twins are rare.

Identical twins(IT), surprisingly , can also be a boy and a girl. They can include a WIDE variety of unshared genes. What contributes to some genes present and others not? One gene developing and the other not?

In our case, outside factors, such as invitro procedures did not influence genes.

But what they term "environmental factors" did. Food, quality of food, pressure, heat, etc can all influence which genes you end up with.Or which injured genes you end up with.

It's subtle. It's eaxct. And it is unknown. But type and quality of food is vital. That much they know. Pars

[parsley]

Surely we can agree that the effects of alcohol on a fetus can be life-devastating for both child and family.

Yes, charliep, you will ask "Exactly, how many beer does it take to cause ADD?"

The public didn't grasp the correlation between drinking and embryo development twenty years ago.

But today, it a risk most would no longer take. Some economists might argue, "Only ie 1.9% born are ADD"

In 2011, we understand that food is what we are made from and what makes us grow and develop.

Wouldn't you head for 0% risk? Pars

[ColevilleH2S]

Pars I will boldly claim that drinking and it's resulting effects on the child is a poor analogy. Adequate food production is a necessity, drinking is not.
I look at it as risk vs. reward. <b>IF REGULATED PROPERLY</b> genetic engineering offers a lot more reward than risk. 0% is something that nature has a hard time achieving and thank goodness for that. Without "oddballs" evolution and forward progress could not be achieved. Striving for 0% is a noble goal but at what cost? Stagnation? Regression?

Remember Triffid is a trade issue, not a safety issue. If this were a safely issue I would be lining up right behind you.

[ColevilleH2S]

Checking, if you do not see your job description at food provider to the world, someone else will take that title for you. Staving your customer is a questionable business plan.

Feeding the world in the most efficient and least expensive manner possible is my goal. And I intend to be better at it than anyone else. I believe I will be providing what most people want, Cheap and Safe food.

[wd9]

Coleville, i agree with you. This is not a safety issue.

If this was a safety issue it wouldn't be a bunch of focus groups and finger pointing. It would be focus groups and finger pointing with lawyers, lots of them.

[parsley]

Understanding Change

There has been a forcefull volteface in parts of the scientific community during the past decade.

Volte-face is an about face. A total change of position. A reversal. A change in policy,

This shift by some scientists, moved away from the String theory, (which is a theory where everything is unified by Nobel prizer Ed Witten's set of mathematical principles,) and edged over to to the "M" theory, which is a modified String theory.

M stands for 'mystery'.

So simply:

Unified whole >>> to >>> mystery. Pars

[parsley]

Why would farmers care about volteface? How does it affect us?

Tom would claim the unified whole is God and His Holy mathematical order. An agnostic might also claim the entire universe is a mathematical interdependent whole, but godless.

However,as M theory influences science, purpose changes; creating has no strings attached, because nothing matters.

M has no purpose.

The universe would operate without meaning or consequence. God does not exist. There is dehumanization. Lions and ants are just as important as man.

Some would describe M this way:

...born from nothingness, into nothingness and will exit into nowhere...

Some say M is where chasing novelty originates.

I once heard a lecturer ask, "does grandizing reality actually distort reality?"

I am not baiting you. Or arguing. I am a mere farm woman. I am merely presenting, aa best I can, in a few sentences, the theories that science will build upon in 2011.

Agricultural science, which affects farmers like you, will most likely be built on an M foundation. IMHO Pars

[TOM4CWB]

WD9,

Interesting that I got into this with Genescan

Here is the official position of the EU based company:

"GENETIC-ID FALSE POSITIVES, FALSE NEGATIVES
18882292011

If DNA purification is ineffective, the DNA may be degraded or contaminated with compounds that interfere with the PCR process. With such DNA preparations, the performance of PCR analysis will not be optimal. DNA degradation will reduce the sensitivity of PCR amplification. Some contaminants may reduce the efficiency of PCR amplification, while some contaminants may alter the specificity with which primers interact with the DNA template, resulting in the production of artifactual PCR products that greatly confuse the interpretation of results.

Contaminants that lead to artifactual PCR products can lead to false positives (classification of a sample as containing genetically modified soy/corn/canola when in fact it does not), while contaminants or degradation problems that reduce PCR efficiency can lead to false negatives (classification of a sample as free of genetically modified material when in fact it contains such material). Either of these incorrect results can spell economic disaster for the buyer or seller of a food product.

Genetic ID employs DNA purification methods that make use of powerful denaturants and DNA-selective reagents that are specifically designed to avoid DNA degradation and to remove contaminants that might inhibit the PCR reaction or generate artifactual DNA template-primer interactions.

http://www.genetic-id.com/Commitment-to-Quality/Quality-Control/False-positives-False-negatives.aspx

Eurofins GeneScan, Inc.
2315 N. Causeway Blvd., Suite 200
Metairie, LA 70001
Phone: (504) 297-4330
Fax: (504) 297-4335
GM’ Flaxseed CDC Triffid™ (FP967) was developed by the Crop Development Centre of the University of Saskatchewan and tested in field trials from 1988 – 2002, but was not released for commercial production . The product is deregulated in Canada and the US. A respective application for approval in the EU was not filed. Trace amounts of CDC Triffid™ found in German flax samples were notified by the EU Rapid Alert System (RASFF) in September 2009.
Our lab is ISO17025 accredited and approved by the Canadian Grain Commission for testing railcars and shipments to the European Union for the presence of CDC Triffid™ (FP967). We passed respective proficiency tests as well.
In accordance with the Sampling and Testing Protocol for Canadian Flaxseed Exported to the European Union, we test four subsamples of 60 gram each. We can offer customized, more economical analytical strategies as well, but have to advise customers that those do not fulfill the requirements of the official European / Canadian Testing Protocol and should be considered for internal or non-EU purposes only."



So what experience does Genescan have?

They oversaw the cleanup of the LL rice fiasco.

Much like triffid only in rice.

Here are some comments I wrote down last spring when talking to the lab manager who was a main manager in cleaning up US rice:

In general; often the EU often does not use the higher GM event .05 &.01% calibration samples... just the known ZERO sample. The EU in general does not care much about the .01% standard I am told... any amplification reading from the zero known sample is a positive for the GM event... there is no such thing as a 'trace' level of contamination in their minds in the EU.

A seed either contained the GM event... and tests negative... or is positive.


In the US... the LLRice event taught many things to those in LA. I spoke for a very long time to a wise operator at Eurofins GeneScan, Inc. today.

Farm saved seed that was properly cleaned and sampled and had a zero GM event... was just as effective at removal of the problem... as was certified seed.

Is rice different that flax?
Good question... but one would logically expect the US to be as expert and best experienced anywhere; because they have being dealing with this problem for over a decade!

In Louisiana they are 2 years into having clear rice seed GM zero reports... and virtually all commercial grain is at zero as well.

He said there was a good chance we are headed for a disaster up here... politics is trumping common sense and logic.

The point of this is simple:

THE US growers sued and got compensation to clean up the genetic mess.

In Canada... we are WAY to civilised to sue and actually pay to rid the world of triffid.

Obviously we do not really care enough to take this seriously.
]
I believe this is why Parsley et al are disturbed by the reaction the plant breeding and growers have... almost resignation and a laissez faire attitude when others in the global community are horrified at what has happened here in western Canada.

What is our willingness to fix this problem... is each farmer exposed to pay the clean up cost with no compensation???!

Why is testing payments only to start Jan 1/11 for seed... and Jan 1/12 for commercial growers?

What about the thousands I paid... why no compensation for those most hurt... if that is possible?