CFIB Survey. What would you check and why?

[gustgd]

Future of Agriculture Policy

Which of the following types of Business Risk Management (BRM) programs would best assist your agri-business in managing risk? (Select as many as apply)

Margin Based – payments targeted at margin declines, based on defined farm income net of defined farm expenses (e.g. AgriStability)

Producer Savings – government matching deposit account (e.g. AgriInvest)

Production Insurance Based – Payments made to an individual based on a production loss where government absorbs a portion of the premium cost/pooled risk. (e.g. AgriInsurance)

Price Insurance Based - Payments made to an individual based on locking in all or a portion of commodity price where government absorbs a portion of the premium cost/pooled risk. (e.g. Cattle Price Insurance Program)

Input Cost Insurance - Payments made to an individual based on an input price increase where government absorbs a portion of the premium cost/pooled risk

Targeted Farm/Industry Disaster Protection - Government funding targeted at losses due to specific disasters or in response to a specific event. (e.g. BSE, flooding)

Environmental – Programs designed to reward environmental stewardship

Other (Please specify)

Government should not be funding BRM programs

[freewheat]

Agriinvest- Check

Can, as in get rid of agristability, and take the funds from that black hole of useless crap, and place it into an actual crop insurance program that works well.

For me, all I would want is a revamped insurance, I would be willing to pay for real coverage, and that would include a prevented plant clause that would at least cover the costs of the non plant year. Rent, payments, chemical, extra fuel, a life insurance clause for tow rope related deaths, broken machinery clause, and weed seedback clause, erosion repair, drainage guarantees, and the such. lol

A program like this, along with the agri invest accounts, would be all my little heart desires.

And finally, not included in the survey, would of course be to extend the right to western farmers to sell their own products as they see fit, at the least. The money sucked up by the "entity" would be a welcome releif to western canadians, and would offset the loss of the aggravation program. It would be a zero cost measure, with a high rate of return...

[bucket]

How about being able to use rrsps to buy farmland.

As an example if a farmer has a sizable RRSP and wants to purchase land, he should be able to withdraw the funds tax free and then set up a fair repayment to his own fund. When the RRSP is finally collapsed then the taxes are due.

The large investment firms are doing this with the average joe, so why should a farmer not be able to do this on his own.

This may be a way to revitalize the rural communities as well.

As far as the list goes the government could throw most of them out the window and come up with a cost of production program and a disaster program and they would be money ahead. And so would the farmer. And then get rid of the largest detriment to farming - the cwb - and the industry would thrive.

[freewheat]

That rrsp idea is a good one. I am young and have a limited balance in mine, but in times like these, READ, bad onmy farm, if I could use them as collateral, I'd get some relief.

[bucket]

And you know what freewheat, APAS has had that suggestion for over 5 years and never acted on it.

So now every tom dick and harry can buy land through an RRSP get a tax break and a good return on their money but farmers can't invest in their own expansion plans.

It should be set up like the home rrsp loan.

[BTOfarmall]

I have never used any of dis crap, nor do I intend to. Woodn't even have a clue on how to fill out dese forms. Da only ting I wood like to see is fer Income Tax to be abolished. Dis all I need to keep on, keepin' on......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PvaNWrkFeQ - Former IRS Agent Joe Banister and Ron Paul On CNBC talkin' about Illegal Income Tax.

Da same applies to Comedians. Gist you's knot smart enough to understand da way our system is written....

[BTOfarmall]

Freewheat, tell me how AgriInvest is helping you or anyone else when you don't seed a crop? This was always my issue with NISA for producers that have experienced multi year problems. When your sales drop with no crop or BSE you have less or no contribution amount. Its great if you have built of an account balance but many farms that don't have good cash flow withdraw the funds immediately.

As far as AgriStability, you make a comment about having a good crop insurance program. I agree that we have a good crop insurance program and maybe it needs a bit of improvements.

AgriStability works hand in hand with crop insurance. If you have been in crop insurance and have generated a margin from your operations, you should have a reference margin and a level of protection. Maybe the 5 year olympic average has to be changed for circumstances like yours to allow a better calculation and support levels.

I have had the opportunity to help a couple farmer friends of mine and their past Agristability applications. I am was absolutely amazed at how poorly the information was put together by the farmer, entered on the forms by someone they all felt was an "ok" accountant and then the issues with the processing by the federal administration.

I still feel that those that hate the AgriStability program do not fully understand it, have poor records or are dealing with someone who knows less about farming and the program than you do.

Is that a receipe for disaster? IMO, worse than 2010!

[freewheat]

Sask 99. Good to hear from you.

I like agriinvest even through these poor/no crop years, because of its simplicity, and its potential. Immediate benefits can be seen for those of us with multiple crop failures, once a crop is grown again, a balance can be built. With aggravation, I need 5 straight decent years to rebuild my average, something that last happened here in the drought years everyone else complained and whined about.

The best farm program for me is a crop grown in the coming year which I hope is VERY VERY DRY. 2002/03 DRY.

I understand aggravation much better than you may think. I feel you belittle those at times who you feel are dense. guys generally "get" aggravation, and to say otherwise is a slap in the face, IMO. Guys around me who have had multiple year disasters on class 1/2 land due in part to government meddling/drainage BS, know ALL about aggravation, and how well it works when your margin is maybe 30-50 bucks an acre due to ridiculous amounts of rainfall. Agstability should be canned, agriinvest revamped, crop insurance overhauled, and drainage should be resumed.

If guys can't put money into aginvest, and worse yet build up accounts thinking it is some retirement fund, they should deal with the consequences.

BUT above all, the CWB should be outlawed, along with government sponsored media. READ CBC.

[riders2010]

So Freewheat how does it feel when a f'n nerd tells you that your forms are not filled in right that's why agristability doesn't work? That goes for all you farmers out there that the program hasn't worked for. You've just been told by a geek banker your stupid. Plain and simple 99 that is a F------ Ass hole comment, and you always will be, all 2 or 3 of you posting under that 99(gretzky farmer)

Things like you are the reason this bullshit ag department of ours hide behind and say see it works. Well ya when you get perfect weather for 5 years in a row. You may have fooled a few on here to think you are so smart but if you really think the biggest reason tens of thousands of farmers don't see anything out of the program because of paper work you aren't smart at all, I thought you were gonna show us your special way to fill the forms out, wink wink, but you never do, what was your biggest contribution oh yeah declaring fuel for farm work lol.

[riders2010]

Ok, Roughrider, some of those great words you call me...at least your consistent in how you treat people.

If you'd bother to read anything I have ever posted, you would have caught many tips given besides the fuel for kids hockey (which was more a joke than anything)

As for you freewheat my appologies if I made you and any others feel be offended by how I have posted. It is my intention to be constructive not hurtful.

Like I said, I have had the luxury of being able to sit down with a few friends and now some new friends to discuss/help them review their applications and here are some of my findings:

a) Back in 2004, 2005 and 2006 when many of these people including our farm had crop failures and some crop that stayed out over winter many of the crop insurance claims were processed throughout the first 6 months of the following year. Most of these producers did not report the claims processed after January as a receivable. Therefore the income is not in the correct year making the reference margin calculation substantially different for some.
b) Nexera, Cargill CSCO, Bunge HEAR are all specialty canola's. For AgriStability this is a non published commodity and therefore you can supply tickets to support your price. This results in a more accurate margin for that year which greatly affects your next payment. Even more critical in 2010 if you grew this stuff in 2009. Ex:35000 bus at 50cent price premium is $17,500 difference in your claim year margin and approx $6000 more in your next payment.
c) Malt Barley in 2008 - How many reported it as malt but it didn't pass and ended being sold into the feed market. Because the Malt price used by the program reflects the high market of 2008, by having this grain classified incorrectly it totally destroyed the margin of 2009 which now greatly reduced reference margin for 2010. (hard to explain)
d) Same example above with every other grain when it is sold off board but reported on the forms as a CWB type grain. How many people grew CPS wheat but sold it as feed? Guaranteed you probably reported it as a CWB commodity.
e) Poor bookkeeping, need I say more. Cash advances missed because this one guy was not balancing to bank account records and tracking the repayments of the advances. Sales reported are substantially less totally screwing up reference margins.
f) Structure change information. One guy grew a forage seed (brome grass). The accountant listed it as bales and made something up to show the sales revenue. Crop share arrangements not reported at the proper share the producer actually receives crop from.
f) Processing errors by the administration. For some reason we calculate what we owe in income taxes each year but why do we allow accountants to "fill in the forms" with no testing, no cross referencing to crop insurance data, yield or expense testing to make sure the data being sent in is correct in the first place.
g) Finally, many farms are just not profitable and that's not the program's fault. One guy grew Barley/Canola for most of his acres. Where he farmed was generally wet and all of us know Barley doesn't do well in wet soil. He usually never had malt quality either therefore production revenue was lower because of it.
h) Father and son operation that should have been combined but were not. Their reference margin ends up being higher in total just because of the way their numbers fall out. Besides the fact that many do not operate independently and should be combined anyway, there can be an advantage in voluntarily combining with others you operate with.
i to Z) I could fill these up if you like

I am sure you will have a great response to all of these with some slander included. If it makes you happy calling names good for you.

As your prior alias listed before, maybe you have just hadenuf of this game and should go do something else

[riders2010]

Boy those are sure big points for a book keeper not one of them deals with the fact if you loose your crops like we have no crop insurance coverage that is effective and no agristability or are you that dense. I am sure you could list more points all the ones you listed almost word for word out of the handbook so big f'n deal you can read wow very impressive for a nerd.

You are a paid off advocate of the local mp aren't you. You don't want the program changed because you won't get your bonus check, while others that had multiple losses are gonna get nothing that's what this is all about.

I hope it feels good cashing that check. I'll tell you a bit of story, a while back I asked for some help for a some young guys going to the oilrigs. Didn't quite tell the whole story though. The one guy born and raised farmer, his wife also. going through all that we are all going through here. Well one day in the so called summer after the banker and credit cards kept harrassing she took here life. That was about a week after a meeting with one of the MLA offices where she was told our area is just a specific area too small and basically not important enough for political action. They got a small payment in 2003 and on top of everything going on got a bill this spring. There is your fg program for you. So if I'm a bit pissed at someone saying the reason you have no cais is your too stupid to fill the forms out up yours, her brother works as an account for one of the firms that does the cais bullshit provincially and did their forms for free. From him we know the averages out there, this is supposed to be a program to help people out not a bonus check for those that do not need it. Tell that to her husband and their 3 kids, while you cash your free money asshole.

[freewheat]

Hey 99, I know what your saying. I guess my farm is simple in ways, and so following up with agstability is therefore simple.

1 I am sole owner
2 Farm is smallish
3 No crop seeded makes for easy calculations unfortunately, lol
4 Grain only makes for simplicity
5 ETC.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate your insight, I just feel frustrated with the program FOR ME currently. I can certainly see a lot of areas benefitting very well this year. It's just that the unseeded cash sure doesn't cut it. I am too young with too much rented land, debt repayments, and no family backing/paid for land, and rent/payments/taking care of land sucked every penny of it and more long ago. Looking back, i should have thrown some seed on the ground by air, and not fertilized, or spent a dime on it, and then I could have had CI coverage for my yields, which are quite decent actually, because in the three unseeded years, at least my yield is not put to a big fat zero. Hindsight is easy, and who knew it would stay so wet.This plan could have as easily backfired...

[freewheat]

Freewheat I feel for you. According to Lewner, this spring should be better.

A couple other questions and possible tips:

a) Did you seed anything in 2010?
b) If so, are the acres that were too wet in the prior years listed in the "unseedable, too wet or too dry classification?

What will happen in 2010 is these acres will be treated as if they didn't exist and anything you seeded in 2010 or will in 2011 will cause a structure change to your reference years.

I know you have indicated that you don't have much for a margin in your past but this will have some benefit going forward.

The program is not perfect by any means but it was never designed to compensate for being at the end of the water channels and the flooding as the result of it. You are dealing with an issue that is the result of management of water. I have a friend near Waldsea lake by Humboldt and she indicated that her husbands farm was going to be compensated through some type of settlement. Same issue as yours, land permanently flooded for the past 3/4 years.

Is there not something like this going on in your area as well?

[freewheat]

And for you Rider2010, go back and look at your past postings.

It was YOU that said YOU were too stupid to complete the forms. I never indicated that anyone was too stupid to get the right information.

The bigger problem is that there are too many so called accountants that know less about the program than you do (A compliment). It is because of their poor practice manangement that has put a lot of producers in a poor situation including the program. I don't think there is one producer out there that cannot gather the information, answer the proper questions if asked by someone who knows what they are doing.

There are many very good knowledgeable small firms and individuals as well. Not everyone has to go to the same place that I do, just because it WORKS FOR ME and my operation and I like what they do. Not everyone needs to have an accountant prepare these things but unless you dedicate time to the understanding, doing the calculations and reviewing the assessment, you will leave lots on the table.

Maybe you are on top of everything I suggested and that is absolutely great (another compliment). You must admit there are many producers that don't have a lot of expertise in all areas of farm management. Its these producers that loose out in the end.

As for your story, my heart goes out to the surviving spouse and I cannot imagine what he is going through. But its not the program that caused her to take her life, its a number of other unfortunate significant factors leading up to that day.

Your constant name calling and downplaying on anyone you feel makes me wonder if you were the "bully in school" and maybe are still today. I cannot help but wonder how many people you influence in the same manner that would make someone feel there is no use for them on this earth as well. You make me feel like Ron and want to have my 27 yr old son reset my password (My only kid is not 3 anymore)

As a devoted catholic, non MP supporting person, God bless him and his 3 kids and may they find their joyful purpose in life and fill the void of their mother who left in such a tragic manner

[freewheat]

Oh and one more thing

Saskfarmer99 stands for Agent 99 from the show Get Smart

It kinda dates me but she was my TV hottie in my younger years