George Morris center

[sawfly]

right on Tom

we are talking about food here and what else in this world is cents / pound.
a 100 % rise in wheat prices is 10 cents a lb. or about 4 cents a loaf of bread.
if a farmer in Canada , with 2 thousand acres , mechanized with good
infrastructure can not make it at 4$
wheat , then how does the third world
make it with 2 acres and an ox.
How bad must it be on those farms
that working for 1$ /hr. or less and living in a slum is a step up.



not to worry , 1 or 2 good world crops,
prices fall and farmers will again, look off farm for income

[jensend]

aside from the moral issues ethanol from grains is a failure environmentally, economically and on an energy in energy out basis. the usa is so screwed financially that the mandate will go within the next couple of years. adm will keep it alive as long as they can.

[TOM4CWB]

jensend,

Think about it...

250/ac corn... is a solar collector... in a soybean rotation is running on N from the air from the beans for a good chunk of that yield.

Soybeans... at 60-80bu/ac... fix their own N.

Your calculator needs to have a genetic alteration!

[jensend]

tom the corn would be a big solar collector if it went for food too. read some independent assessments of the energy in/energy out balance and then ask yourself why it is so heavily subsidized. in europe as they withdrew subsidies for biofuels the plants were dismantled and shipped to other countries for them to try. your calculator just says if tom makes money it doesn't matter who pays.

[TOM4CWB]

Jensend...

A big portion of DDG's and biodiesel DOES end up in food! It is livestock feed and soymeal... which anyone who was actually hungry... could eat... and survive very well on!

We humans do not need to eat meat... to survive!!!! Much of the worlds population will not even eat pork of cows!

[Choice2U]

I've always wondered how "they" calculate the cost to produce ethanol. In my books, the land will be used for something whether it be food, fuel or the production of contraceptives (I'm considering this option as a way to protect myself against the CWB). Based on this fact, the real cost to produce ethanol is the VARIANCE between the cost of the various alternative uses of that land and the cost to produce ethanol. Thus, I am not sure that ethanol production is as "unethical" and costly as some have stated. When one analyzes the cost to changing equipment, one doesn't just calculate in the cost of the new purchase only. One has to compare it to the alternative cost of keeping the old equipment because the land still has to be farmed.

[rook]

While I'm happy to see current grain prices I must admit I am uneasy about the future of the US ethanol mandate with current budgetary pressure and environemtal perceptions.

[Burbert]

Jen, You are totally correct, about the
US economy. C China, just about owns
the US now. They are living in a
dreamland. Printing more money, when
the need arises. Trying to climb out
of a pit, created by fraud and
corruption. Farm subsidies will soon be
pinched off! Someday someone will have
to pay up, not just lay around looking
for more cash injections!

[jensend]

okay tom then take away the subsidies and let it fly on its own. you believe in letting the market determine these things.

[Happytrails]

Good job carrying the load jen. Not a simple matter from any angle. Some people think it is immoral to feed grain to livestock. If people are hungry I would agree. Mbratrud wonders if it is ethical for fertilizer and fuel prices to be so high. Turning grain into fuel creates an insatiable demand which carries on to the price of inputs.

I'm with everyone that it is a huge risk that we primary producers constitute such a small percentage of society. It is an upside down food chain that should set off some concern among the urban majority. Sadly I doubt they will worry about our well being without a food scare. HT