George Morris center

[Choice2U]

I've always wondered how "they" calculate the cost to produce ethanol. In my books, the land will be used for something whether it be food, fuel or the production of contraceptives (I'm considering this option as a way to protect myself against the CWB). Based on this fact, the real cost to produce ethanol is the VARIANCE between the cost of the various alternative uses of that land and the cost to produce ethanol. Thus, I am not sure that ethanol production is as "unethical" and costly as some have stated. When one analyzes the cost to changing equipment, one doesn't just calculate in the cost of the new purchase only. One has to compare it to the alternative cost of keeping the old equipment because the land still has to be farmed.

[rook]

While I'm happy to see current grain prices I must admit I am uneasy about the future of the US ethanol mandate with current budgetary pressure and environemtal perceptions.

[Burbert]

Jen, You are totally correct, about the
US economy. C China, just about owns
the US now. They are living in a
dreamland. Printing more money, when
the need arises. Trying to climb out
of a pit, created by fraud and
corruption. Farm subsidies will soon be
pinched off! Someday someone will have
to pay up, not just lay around looking
for more cash injections!

[jensend]

okay tom then take away the subsidies and let it fly on its own. you believe in letting the market determine these things.

[Happytrails]

Good job carrying the load jen. Not a simple matter from any angle. Some people think it is immoral to feed grain to livestock. If people are hungry I would agree. Mbratrud wonders if it is ethical for fertilizer and fuel prices to be so high. Turning grain into fuel creates an insatiable demand which carries on to the price of inputs.

I'm with everyone that it is a huge risk that we primary producers constitute such a small percentage of society. It is an upside down food chain that should set off some concern among the urban majority. Sadly I doubt they will worry about our well being without a food scare. HT

[TOM4CWB]

Jensend,

"6.1.2 Alberta Regulatory Elements
Effective July 2010, the Alberta Renewable Fuel Strategy requires 2% renewable content by volume in diesel fuel." NO subsidies I know of on this...

6.1.5 European Union (EU) Biodiesel Experience
The EU Biofuels Directive (Directive 2003/30/EC) set non-binding, biofuels-neutral targets for biofuels use as a percentage of fossil fuel use. In 2005, the target was 2% and in 2010, it is 5.75%. An amendment to the Fuels Quality Directive was voted in December 2008 to allow biodiesel blends of up to 7%. The related diesel fuel quality specification EN 590 was modified in 2009 to align with the directive.

The Renewable Energy Directive (Directive 2009/28) entered into force on June 25, 2009 and one of its core elements is a 10% binding target for renewables in the transportation sector and the introduction of a comprehensive set of sustainability requirements for biofuels in order to be counted towards the target.

Several EU member states have biodiesel or renewable diesel specific mandates, such as Germany (4.4%), Italy (3.5% in 2010; 4% in 2011; 4.5% in 2012), Lithuania (5%), and Portugal (10%).

6.2 Comparison to Ethanol Regulation
The federal government is implementing a 5% renewable alternative to gasoline mandate in 2010. There is a considerable amount of experience in Canada with blending and introducing ethanol into the gasoline pool, due to provincial ethanol mandates that have been in force for several years (Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, and more recently in British Columbia). The experience will help to reduce the risk associated with implementing a federal mandate, because it can/has inform(ed) the structure of the regulation.

On the other hand, Canadian experience with biodiesel is much more limited; Manitoba’s biodiesel mandate came into force on November 1, 2009, and BC’s mandate for renewable content in diesel and heating oil came into force on January 1, 2010. To date, the actual quantity of biodiesel consumed is not well known. The provincial regulations were designed with some flexibility for the first years and use could be relatively limited to date. The federal government will not be able to rely on much past experience in order to shape the renewable alternative to diesel regulation.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/transportation/alternative-fuels/programs/nrddi/report-2010/chap6.cfm?attr=8



Q. What impact will renewable fuels have on food prices?


A number of factors contribute to the price of food. Alberta currently only consumes about 1.2 % of available grains and oilseeds in the manufacturing of renewable fuel in the province. As a result, grain for fuel use in Alberta is not expected to have any impact on the price of food.
In addition, the vast majority of bioenergy in Alberta is produced from either waste or forestry biomass. This trend is expected to continue with future growth and adoption of emerging technologies, such as gasification of municipal solid waste or ethanol production from woody biomass.

It is generally understood that the price of oil, and not corn prices or ethanol production, have the greatest impact on consumer food prices. Energy is part of every phase of food production from processing to packaging to transportation

http://www.energy.alberta.ca/BioEnergy/1110.asp

[jensend]

costs most people wouldn't even think of: http://www.globalsubsidies.org/files/assets/Brochure_-_US_Report.pdf

and this one applies to canada. notes that average subsidies to ethanol in canada are 40 us cents per litre.

http://www.globalsubsidies.org/files/assets/oecdbiofuels.pdf

[TOM4CWB]

jensend,

If we start down this rabbit trail... there are more subsidies on conventional oil than ethanol!

[Happytrails]

Tom...even in the unlikely case that oil gets more subsidies than ethanol the ethanol subsidies are still more damaging. You can't eat oil. HT

[dalek]

Not really Happytrails. A good portion of the "subsidy"
for conventional oil is in blood, particularly US soldiers
but others as well. Next time you see a Marine die to
secure an Iowa cornfield, or a Canadian soldier lose
his legs to a mine protecting a cornfield in Huron
County, Ontario, talk to me about subsidies.

[jensend]

geez tom every time i answer you divert. lol. i think most people would agree that corn for ethanol has a greater effect on the price of corn than the price of oil.

[gregpet]

From today's agriline:

"US AG SECRETARY Vilsack said there is adequate US corn for food, feed, ethanol and export needs, and ethanol production is not raising food costs. The ethanol industry is coming under increasing attack from numerous sources as the cause of the corn price jump. Ethanol production accounts for 10.1% of the US gasoline supply and takes 25% of corn, however approx 1/3 of corn is returned to the feed market as DDGS."

[burnt]

I really like bringing "morality" into the discussion when I know I have the high ground, but not so much when it doesn't favor my interests. Watch out for what might jump out and bite you if you take that route - it can get a bit tricky . . .

[burnt]

What I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to consider the "morality" aspect of an issue when it helps our personal interest. Not that we shouldn't take it into account, just that we often/usually/inherently prefer not to.

[TOM4CWB]

A party of economists was climbing in the Alps . After several hours they became hopelessly lost. One of them studied the map for some time, turning it up and down, sighting on distant landmarks, consulting his compass, and finally the sun.

Finally he said, ' OK see that big mountain over there?'

'Yes', answered the others eagerly.

'Well, according to the map, we're standing on top of it.'