George Morris center

[jensend]

well then gregpet i guess you wouldn't care if the ethanol mandate disappeared. what would you expect vilsack to say and do you believe him? i think it's a delusion to say ethanol doesn't affect corn prices. american producers sure seem to think it's a positive factor.

[TOM4CWB]

Jensend,

It is a delusion to expect that $100T in Quantitative Easing will not drive up food and crude prices... on every corner of the globe.

[jensend]

oh now you want to talk about that! why didn't you say so? here's something to read: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/commentary/jeff-rubins-smaller-world/wikileaks-reveals-imminent-saudi-oil-peak/article1908385/

[gregpet]

jensend, I think everything is subsidized to a certain degree. Ethanol helps support commodity prices and in, my opinion, does not remove food from anyones plate.

Right or wrong, it is what it is.

[TOM4CWB]

Jensend,

TalkingEskimo about AB 'investment' (subsidy in any other conservative language) $6B on the Carbon/Up grader tar sands project... just to start!

$17B by the time it is fully operational! THe forced Carbon Credit regulations... are billions more.

So we will have diesel fuel coming out our yingyang when this little 150,000b/day refinery is done!

And you thought ethanol was subsidised in Alberta?

[jensend]

and canada, being a net exporter of energy, really needs ethanol? fine, tom , use subsidized oil and natural gas to produce ethanol which is a dog economically, environmentally and on energy balance. why don't we just cut you a subsidy cheque and quit pretending ethanol is a good idea?

[TOM4CWB]

Lloyd and Red Deer both produce ethanol from our wheat here in Alberta.

Permolex cuts the wheat making gluten and flour.

[craig]

Jensend
You want to go back to our old system where we
are totally dependent on the whim of our politicians
for our survival and farming is dependent on which
governments have the biggest bankroll for ag. All
our crops have benefited from corn consumption
from ethanol. Surplus production means non tariff
trade barriers as everyone fights to protect their
own producers. Whether there is merit in ethanol
production is a valid argument but as a producer
my concern is to have varied and different markets
for my grain. I do not want to go back to a system
where we basically give our grain away to make a
sale.

[jensend]

i thought we were talking about ethanol. we don't need it in canada. period. we have lots of energy. fine use the ethanol as a subsidy - that's what it is. can we afford it? as a foodstuff wheat has always been sold to poorer countries for the most part and i don't know why you would expect to raise a low value product and expect to get rich in a capital intensive, low-margin industry. these are the issues you want addressed and i dare say it would be cheaper to cut you a cheque to keep you on the land, as they do in europe, than to produce another product we don't need.

[Happytrails]

How to hang in there jen.

[craig]

Jensend
So much for my self esteem. Guess I'm just another
social welfare case looking for the government to
pay me to look after the hiking trails those city folk
want to enjoy on the weekend. Not sure if the
government will be prepared to support all the
other businesses that I currently deal with. You
seem to want to live in the real world but to
suggest that a Euorpean farm model would work in
Canada is full of holes. When we have surpluses of
food, it has little value and the economics of
farming just don't work. No different than
producing worthless ethanol.

[jensend]

not trying to hurt anyone's self-esteem. what are the realities of the market? what does it mean to producers if the usa gives up the ethanol mandate? canada will follow suit, i'm sure. adm is or was the biggest ethanol producer and getting billions in subsidies and they won't give it up easily but if they see the mandate disappearing you can bet they will have an exit strategy. i think the biggest danger to farmers or ranchers is the fact that governments and consumers are broke. how big a puff of inflation will it take to start a chain of events that will be catastrophic for producers who buy high priced inputs only to find the production is going into a smaller market and no backup?