De Pape vs Hursh on CWB Ships

[Fransisco]

In this corner Kevin Hursh wearing the brightly coloured CWB logo...

http://www.hursh.ca/2011/02/lake-freighter-debate/

The old debate over the Canadian Wheat Board has developed a new twist. The CWB is purchasing two new lake vessels at a cost of $65 million. The CWB says there’s a need to replace the aging fleet of freighters on the Great Lakes. The cost is equal to approximately $1 per tonne, paid over the next four crop years. Meanwhile, the transportation cost savings are supposed to amount to at least $10 million per year. CWB opponents have been quick to pounce noting producers were never consulted on the purchase. That’s true, but the CWB directors are elected to make decisions on behalf of producers. Although $65 million sounds like a lot of money, it pales in comparison to the money that is made or lost during the CWB’s regular marketing decisions on wheat, durum and export barley. And there is a precedent for the CWB owning transportation assets. It has long owned a fleet of 3,400 rail hopper cars. Some opponents also argue that the benefits of ship ownership, if any, will not necessarily accrue to those who finance the purchase. Producers who are planning to retire soon will end up paying the tab without seeing the longer-term benefits. Using that argument, the CWB shouldn’t invest in new computers or staff training either. The true, but unspoken reason for most of the opposition is probably the distaste for the CWB expanding its sphere of influence. I’m Kevin Hursh.

[Fransisco]

And in this corner John De Pape...

http://cwbmonitor.blogspot.com/2011/02/ag-commentator-kevin-hursh-steps-into.html

Ag commentator Kevin Hursh has defended the CWB’s decision to buy lakers with farmer’s money by saying that the CWB directors are elected to make decisions on behalf of producers.

Yes, to a degree they are. However, very few farmers – even some supporting the single desk – ever expected the board of directors to make the decision to take the CWB outside of its conventional role as grain marketer. Even fewer expected the directors to make the decision to use farmers’ money to buy something not required to market grain – without even asking. (You can argue you need transportation services to market grain; but, you don’t need to own them.)

Mr. Hursh suggests that the price tag of $65 million “pales in comparison” to the money the CWB makes or loses in marketing decisions. His comments align with the CWB’s condescension that this is no big deal, since it represents only $1.00/tonne. To one farmer I talked to, $1.00/tonne over 4 years is equal to $16,000 – money that he would rather see come his way because of a total crop failure last year.

Hursh also suggests that buying vessels should be acceptable since the CWB already owns a fleet of 3,400 railcars. He calls it a precedent but it’s not.

The situation back then was completely different – the fleet was made up of broken down boxcars and they weren’t going to last much longer. Somebody had to buy railcars because the railroads refused, since there was no money in hauling grain under the Crow. It was the Federal Government that bought the cars and made the CWB the owner.

Back then, nobody took farmers’ money to buy the cars, like the CWB is doing to buy the lakers. Also, railcars had to be bought by someone but nobody wanted to. That is not the situation with these lakers; remember, Algoma and Upper Lakes are buying 6 lakers themselves.

Mr. Hursh likens the purchase of these lakers with the CWB’s investment in computers or staff training. The difference he misses is that computers and training are required to sell grain – the CWB doesn’t NEED lakers to fulfill its mandate of selling grain.

But he misses an even more important point. Farmers are being forced to pay for these lakers but they will never own them. The CWB will own them, but farmers don’t own the CWB.

I guess in an ironic way this is proof that you can actually benefit from something without owning it.

Hursh really misses the message in the tea leaves when he suggests “The true, but unspoken reason for most of the opposition is probably the distaste for the CWB expanding its sphere of influence.”

Farmers are angry because the CWB is taking their money to spend it on something they don’t see as necessary and without being asked; they would rather invest in their own farm operations or their local communities – or pay bills. It’s like being forced to pay for a B-train even though you’ll never own it and you prefer to use custom haulers anyway.

As one farmer put it, “I don’t even let my kids spend my money. And I love them.”

I’m John De Pape

[TOM4CWB]

Dear John,

When family spends 'our' money... that comes out of 'the' farm bank account...

Permission on the decision is sought... and always the first order of respect and co-operation... before the papers are signed especially on Capital Purchases.

CWB CEO White and Chair OBERG are clearly way offside on this project.

SOMEONE at the CWB should lose their job.

Hursh misses the mark by the Mission terminal in Thunder Bay... and two ships!

Kevin... your love for the CWB clearly has blinded you, and tainted your mind.

Go write papers for the NFU.

""I believe today that my conduct is in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator."

Guess who wrote that Kevin...

[BTOfarmall]

Next ting You's know Tom will have Fifty in the Banana Clip tryin to protect his Grain from da Comedian Wit Bored. He be ridin' around wit that Rocket, Load it up and He **** it....

[TOM4CWB]

GTO,

You are strange.

Go sell some soy.

[bucket]

Tom

The conservatives are not listening. Period.

They don't care or this file would have been taken care of by now.

Ritz is just as happy to continuing the saga between the government and the cwb. It gives them all something to do without doing anything at all.

If Ritz had any balls he would have shot down the purchase instead of getting all huffy/puffy in the house.He has the authority to stop the deal whether the cwb thinks so or not.

And yes, I have called the mps offices in sask and ottawa. They don't want to hear from farmers as they say things like "we are working on making marketing choice a reality and we have introduced a private members bill to do just that". Yeah they tried it with the gun registry and lost.

Basically until someone stands up in Ottawa and says the cwb is voluntary, farmers that want choice are screwed.

[wilagro]

BTOfarmall: LOL Tom doesn't like to be teased. Him big serious feller. Big puff of wind sometimes too.

Hursh is right on when he says opposition to the Lakers because the antis hate to see the CWB have more influence. If they (the wheat growers) had come up with the idea that there should be more Lakers to ship grain it would have been oksy.

[Hopperbin]

I think the proper way to have done this is make a share offering to farmers on the lakers purchase, actually purchase the whole dam fleet.
If farmers don't want to own then go to public first come first chance at purchase. In the end it will likely pay off I have nothing against owning shit for sure. So if a farmer quits farming in one year and his money went to buy lakers is that fair? Anyways the CWB should not own any grain shipping assets untill they are faced with competition.

[bucket]

Maybe owning ships makes sense but why were farmers not consulted?

They do polls on everything else why not one that asks the question - Do you think the cwb should buy ships? And only a yes or no answer.

Considering they just had an opportunity to put forth their ideas throughout the cwb election, the questions becomes, who had the hidden agenda?

[Fransisco]

I am not interested in owning ships. If I was I certainly wouldn't need the wheat board to do it on my behalf and I wouldn't be doing it with other peoples money.

Hursh is out to lunch.

[Hopperbin]

I think the answer to that is the CWB only wants to know if we appreciate or worship them like beloved or something.
As far as business is concerned we are to follow and be ****d.

[Hopperbin]

Ok I have a prediction here, since the CWB only understands dismantel and impossible when faced with competition.
Some CWB paid person will own this fleet of ships for a song in 5 years time. Oh can you immagine the graffiti on that duoÉ

[Braveheart]

I wonder what Kevin Hursh will say when the CWB is charged with racketeering after the investigation into the board's dealings with Adrian Measner's Upper Lake Grain and subsidiaries. "Mafia tactics and expropriated wheat . . . business as normal. I'm Kevin Hursh."

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket,

IF Chuck had not tried/lost... and the CWB won on the barley choice... we would be in a voluntary CWB right now.

Please do not blame the Conservatives for the meddling of judges.

[wd9]

Hursh, i'm so comforted by the statement that there are so many blunders on grain sales that 60 milion pales in comparison. NOT!