How would you vote on the CWB

[Ruken]

Charliep. I can't comment on the details of the marketing restrictions that you face being that I don't sell grains. However, there are many times I had a big brother out there representing us cow calf people on the marketing front. When I sell my calves, I recognize I am in competition with all the other sellers that are offering a similar product. That's frustrating as I recognize there are many of us and fewer of them which is consistent all the way up the food chain until we reach the consumer level. A united front on the conceptual level would be to my advantage which I can't help would be yours.

[charliep]

Perhaps you have highlighted the problem. What type of a marketing structure could provide value for agricultural managers based on business case/money in their pocket in a non regulated/non compulsory world - could be calves or wheat?

As a cow calf operation, you may not like your market power but you have lots of alternatives (local auction, direct sales, satelite auction, etc.). The buyers may be Canadian or US. Your calves could backgrounded or fed out either side either (realizing the challenges of MCOOL. You can keep your calves and move to a different level (background them). You have the ability to manage your business in the best way you can based on your individual needs.

[wilagro]

So Ruken likes the change because he sees that the price of feed barley will be LESS with no compulsory CWB around.

Hmmmmm...so there may be an advantage in this change in marketing after all.

Tell that to all of your neighbours who grow feed barley so they can thank the Harper CONs when they have so many marketing opportunities come harvest time in 2012.

[charliep]

Shaun

would have been interesting if you had separated barley and wheat. Suspect barley could go tomorrow with no impact on the market/supply chain operations. The only challenge for the CWB would be 2011/12 malt barley contracts. Malt barley cash plus would be okay - a three way contract between an individual farmer, a maltster/exporter and the CWB which is enforceable. Any uncovered position between a maltster/exporter (no farmer contracts) may present an issue but that just highlights the foolishness of the current system.

[charliep]

wilagro

Regardless of when it happens, you should suggest to the CWB that they get out of barley price pooling altogether and just deal cash. There today with feed barley (zero volume in last years pool). Good experience for their new wheat world.

Curious if there are any recent studies that demonstrate single desk benefit for barley?

[charliep]

Way off Shaun's topic but would watch for the next annual CWB producer satisfaction survey. Would watch the direction and tone of the questions. Assuming will be done late May/June for least last half June (normal) or early July.

[Ruken]

Wilagro, firstly let me acknowledge my ignorance around the selling regulations within the CWB. However, as a buyer of feed barley, I have many grain growers that I can access grain from. Assuming that the quality is the same from many of them, I can work one against the next for their product to get the cheapest price. After all, there are so many of them and only a few of us buyers and by standing alone, they do not have a firm pricing base. It would be a whole lot harder for me to dicker with them if they would all stand together, which is one of the aspects that the CWB does for the grain growers, albeit with a whole set of complexities along with that feature. An I'm happy for you to tell me I'm wrong and I'll retake grade 2!

[charliep]

Would these same principles apply to the fall run of calves? Would you favor a more regulated single desk system of your calf crop? Do you think you would get a higher price?

[parsley]

Ruken, feed wheat and barley growers are captives of the domestic buyers. I can't export it. Feedlot operators can set a price and take their pick. Ontario can turn their nose up and export. Uh huh.

I'm right with you silver. Who in their right mind, would even contemplate a bloody vote?

[Ruken]

Well I don't know. Yes, i can sense the frustration that you have in marketing within the limits imposed by the CWB but the free enterprise model isn't cake with icing either. There's got to be a better way. I can appreciate the frustrations with the buyers side as well, being the feedlots trying to operate within their margins....not simple. Is there something we can adopt from the dairy industry?

[charliep]

The difference with the dairy industry is they control supply and meet the needs of the domestic market. Their profitability based on ability to manage supplies is built into quota values.

Cattle and beef are both based on export markets. Canada only consumes about half the beef we produce (could be a higher percentage today with declines in cattle herd). We need access to outside markets. Trade rules govern what we can and can't do.

Strangely, barley is moving to the same stage you talk about with dairy. Canada will produce 9 million ish tonnes of barley. Livestock industry will use 6.5 to 7 millions tonnes (down 9 million tonnes historically because in the reduction of livestock numbers). Domestic malting industry at capacity - 1 million tonnes. Seed - 300,000 tonnes. 1 million tonnes available for export (likely malt). Lack of profitability in barley is pushing farmers to other crops - your wish will come true in that barley will only be produced for the domestic market in the future if the current trend stays in place. The livestock industries safety valve is they can import US corn. Can the Canada be competitive as a feeding region if rely on imported corn?

Way off the original topic but what both the livestock industry and the grain side need is an effective western barley futures contract to provide a more visible price and hedging opportunities. More open access to export markets could (not guranteed) bring more trading volumes to this contract.

[FarmRanger]

Ahh yes, the dairy industry. Permanent ever-increasing consumer subsidies which become capitalized into the piece of paper that says you can sell your milk.

If someone succeeds in creating that monstrosity in the grain industry, I'm retiring the next day. The free market may not be perfect, but I'll take it over government controlled markets any day.

[wilagro]

Well if the feller in the green hat hadn't set up the dairy marketing boards there wouldn't be a dairy industry in Canada and our dairy products would be mostly imports from the states and owned by big business.

Marketing boards aren't perfect but they saved the industry and protect the consumer as well as the producer.

[sumdumguy]

Willagro, how do they protect the consumer?

Do you think American dairy is unsafe?

[Ruken]

Good thoughts here are various levels. Can we go the petrochemical industry to adopt a new model? They operate on a world market to find a base price and then they work by formula to cover their costs and then charge at the pumps accordingly. Surely the food world (us) should be able to figure something like this out. Yes, they work within a set of constraints and (are not free) to do thier own thing, but they also operate within a certain level of security that we in the free enterprise model do not have... and they export...