Feeding 9 bln people by 2050

[begood]

"Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument".
Begood I'm not dumb,nor am I a religous zealot I questioned your world view and nothing more-stop referring to the you tube clip as if questioning you is questioning math itself.
I understand that population growth appears right now to be like a doomsday scenario(and maybe it is) however the factor that cannot be calculated is human creativity.When the population grows there are more brains(literally)to find solutions to problems.Agriculture in the next ten years will likely be more transformative than the last fifty years.

[burnt]

Nihilism leaves little room, pardon me, NO room for human creativity and the hope that it generates.

Nietzsche did his work well and the negativity and hopelessness that permeates contemporary society has its roots in his sepulchurous thoughts.

It really isn't too hard to understand - which creates the biggest popular reaction, strident proclamations of doom and gloom or assertions that "by our best efforts, we can master this"?

The common human tendency is to default into the easiest path. And that path leads down into despair.

Get out into the sunshine or take your uppers, begood! Life ain't so bad!

[FarmRanger]

<i>It should be fair to expect more from those
who consider themselves to be better or superior
or have higher "morals" than the rest of us.</i>

Funny. The logic reminds me of the book "The
Benefits of Socialism"

"Socialism is tolerance. It is peace. Some turn
their backs on peace by shunning socialism.  In
the name of tolerance and for the sake of peace
we must destroy these people."

[hedgehog]

the problem we all face is the end of oil.
in 25 years , oil/gas will be too expensive to use to make nitrogen.
it will also be too expensive to use in tractors.
there is nothing out there today that will replace either effectively.
without artificial nitrogen, world grain production will drop by two thirds, as any organic farmer will testify.
we have no chance of feeding 8 billion people, even with nitrogen.
world pop will need to fall to pre ww2 levels, ie before Nitrogen.
with one third of the worlds land destined to grow biofuel to power our tractors, the price of wheat will rocket to the level it was at before the prairies were exploited 160 yrs ago.
wheat was 120 shillings(£6) a quarter(8bu) in britain in 1815.
£6 would have paid a man for nearly a year back then.
his entire wage was needed for 8 bushels of wheat, which might have fed him for the year ,just.
by 1894, wheat had dropped below 20 shillings, and wages were £50/yr.
british farmers went bankrupt,and/ or went to canada.
ploughing the prairies saved the west from starvation in victorian times, what will save us this time?

[cottonpicken]

Thanks for those price ratios Hedge,i thrive on them.

A funny one one is how many roman legionaires you
could hire on to days wage converted to silver,or
waitresses pre 1913.

Lets just say we would be well fed and protected.

[begood]

Any helpful creativeness won't come from people who can't understand arithmetic.

[TOM4CWB]

Begood,

Do you understand electricity?

I see the miracle of a thunderstorm... the the millions of tonnes of N washed into the soil... besides all the electrical energy released.

I see a whole different world in our soils... where nitrogen fixation will become the fantastic generator of food for other crops besides pulses and soybeans.

The creativness of our fellow humans cannot be measured... or contained... for as we venture out into the greater universe... we will only gather more ideas... which will in turn create more prosperity and healthy families.


Humanity is only limited by our lack of imagination!

[Hopperbin]

Hedge hog not sure you want a business in Canada these days, the average mining job pays 108 thousand dallars these days not easy to compete. No wonder everyone here is going on strike
Mind you there is high production per person but there must be to a point when shit hits fan.

[hedgehog]

hopperbin, i came to sask in early may 04. it rained heavy, and things didnt look too good. wife didnt like the lack of mountains. looked at a lot of cheap farms, but we went home and stayed put. should have come in summer.
those mining jobs make a fortune!
maybe i,ll come back.
when one group earns too much, it causes problems. in the uk its the banker speculators earning half a million a year that have bought all the land/houses since 2001, forcing it up beyond the reach of everyone else.

[BTOfarmallll]

Hedge please do not spew that rhetoric on here to the Masses. We ain't runnin outta Oil anytime soon nor in 25-100 years and beyond. Research the actual facts. Keep filling up yer Suv's!!!!!!!!!

[checking]

Tom Lets start extracting those millios of tons of nitrogen run off water from the flooded areas. Better yet; control those lightning strikes through weather modification techniques. Hook up that perpetual motion machine, and convert base metals into gold.
Why not just sell thouse millions of gallons of ethanol for spirits and buy all the gasoline and diesel required from the profits. Everyone will benefit.
Did you get your cold fusion machine perfected. And dust off that magnetic seed treater that provided huge yield increases for a relatively minor cost. They do last almost indefinately you know.
And now that humans can do anything, including things that should not have been done; or those advances that have "cost to benefit ratios much less than unity" lets allow all creativity to flourish.
And why not nitrogen fixation for all living organisms. Then we only have one variety needed. Biodiversity was such a waste of resources don't you think.
Any of these scenarios remind you of being a Creator. Thats the kind of a Creator we now need. Maybe we can simply alter minds so that everyone just thinks they are full of luscious food; travelling the universe and fully enjoying themselves.
There are man made miracles. Those nuclear power plants are clean, fool proof and capable of tremendous energy output. A little hard to control sometimes but lets ignore that detail. You want a bet that they wouldn't be an excellent way to get the heavy oil out of Saskatchewan tar sands. And we could add a shack on the side to produce medical isotopes. There are two problems solved at once. A few extra years of world oil production and with a little improvement in cancer treatment we will all live for hundreds of years.
One or two companies just got the coal rights for a swath of land from the Estevan area practically to Alberta border. And it goes from the international border to some tens of miles north. I've got a hunch they plan on working their "minerals"; although coal probably isn't now considered a mineral. Still there are tremendous coal reserves. Don't worry about the overburden or destrying the water aquifers in a pretty big chunk of Sask.
Oh there will be creativity all right; and it will be done without full thouht of the overall result. A lot will be done in panic mode because everything is "doubling" so fast.
And it will be done without people such as you understanding arithmetic; and by supporters who think the electricity we rely on comes from lightning.

[TOM4CWB]

Checking,

The only thing we have to fear... is fear itself.

Love hope and joy will provide all we need to construct our 'new' world. But Love is the most important of these!

Will there be a transformation... of course there will be!