Crow?

[Fransisco]

I can be wrong. But not on this wheat board issue. The evidence is too overwhelming. We will all be much better off in a competitive open market.

[Braveheart]

Mallee, the Crowsnest Past Freight Rate was gone in the early 1980s. It was so out of wack with modern costs of doing business that the railways weren't reinvesting in motive power, cars, railbeds or anything grain related. Forget about all the land and mineral grant bs and perpituity bs, it was sold off and was only ever offered to help build the most expensive transcontinental rr in the world.

In the 1980s the "Crow" became the Western Grain Transportation Act. It was somewhat like an annuity. it was a freight subsidy that began to decline over time. It would run to zero eventually.

The big argument at the time and after in fact to this day was the method of payment. The question was, pay it to farmers or pay it to the railways? Some farmers, those conned by the three prairie wheat pools, and anyone with a twisted socialist leaning, wanted it paid to the railways. Yes, some farmers wanted it paid to railways!

The livestock industry and free enterprise farmers wanted the payment to go to farmers. Agriculture would have looked much different if it had.

Even the Prime Minister at the time, Liberal Pierre Trudeau conceded shortly afterwards that it was mistake to pay the railways.

Just an example of how insane it was is here. eg.: A train of malt barley bound for a US destination, marshalled in Winnipeg, would proceed all the way to Thunder Bay. It would then turn around and come back to Winnipeg before heading south to destination. According to the act the grain had to touch water (export) before the subsidy would apply. What a waste. Thanks idiots (SWP, Man and Alberta Pool, NFU et al).

[agstar77]

So you have proof that Viterra and ADM will sell your grain for more than Australian grain. I am looking forward to your proof.

[Fransisco]

I have proof that the wheat board has been selling it for less. I and many others have been showing you that proof for years already on this forum.

[Braveheart]

Agstar, the thing is in a competitive marketplace Fransisco doesn't need proof. If Franny doesn't like what Viterra or ADM offer he can simply deal with someone else. There will be transparency. Everyone's cash price will be on the table. Basis levels will be known. Competition is what keeps everyone honest.

That's what's missing from the CWB. Agstar, you might accept the "trust us" we're here for you from the board, but I need the discipline of the open market so I choose who I trust or not.

[Braveheart]

Agstar, the thing is in a competitive marketplace Fransisco doesn't need proof. If Franny doesn't like what Viterra or ADM offer he can simply deal with someone else. There will be transparency. Everyone's cash price will be on the table. Basis levels will be known. Competition is what keeps everyone honest.

That's what's missing from the CWB. Agstar, you might accept the "trust us" we're here for you from the board, but I need the discipline of the open market so I choose who I trust or not.

[BTOfarmallll]

I have proof my wheat gon be heading South 8/1/12. Might make it miserable as hell to cross the border with it, But they ain't stop the flow South, that I kin guarantee, NAFTA. Shut the border off to Wheat, simple, oil now flows to China, & we blow up all the pipelines heading South once & fer all, F*ck em', let em' rot down there. The Railways never have, never will make money moving yer grain, thats why yous the bottom of the barrel allthetime. Funny how these Sob's everywhere crying Global Warming, Global Warming, YET they are ripping out Railway Tracks at an unprecedented rate everywhere around the World, it makes yer frickin head spin.........

[dave4441]

THis is F--king painfall.

[TOM4CWB]

Dave,

You mean like Iggy/Liberano and Bloc painful?

Change is the only constant... on this little blue planet... 3rd from the sun!

Mallee,

I think you missed my post on the CWB and Crow... and how they connect:

It is a fact that the 2 railways were given $billions of land a mineral resourses... in return for hauling our produce.
THe word 'perpetuity' was used by Minister Goodale... until he decided to give it away.

"per·pe·tu·i·ty/ˌpərpiˈt(y)o͞oitç/Noun


1. A thing that lasts forever or for an indefinite period, in particular.

2. A bond or other security with no fixed maturity date"


The CWB monopoly... on the other hand... was put in place in 1943 to expropriate our farm produce... and the crow to a large extent held the whole package together because the freight was so low no other alternative market could arbitage western Canadian prices at the farm gate.

SO... from 1943 to 1947... the CWB monopoly was binding...(War measures act) then from 1947 to 1993... growers were exempt (the CWB Monopoly) on the export side... if they sold using US or pedigreed seed grading. When Goodale took back over from Charlie Mayer in 1993... then he persecuted grain growers who dared to pass by the Prairie pools... and (dared) sell fusarium infected sample wheat for more than the CWB/prairie pools were offering for high grade milling wheat.

Goodale had to put a stop to this problem... hence the present CWB monopoly was officially put in place May 17 1996 by Goodale 15 minutes after the Manitoba Court said David Sawatsky not guilty (of selling his own grain).

"Grain export victory. (a Manitoba court found farmer David Sawatzky innocent of exporting wheat and barley to the U.S. without a permit from the Canadian Wheat Board)(Brief Article)
Article from: Maclean's | May 27, 1996"

THen Goodale hand cuffed (and Jailed)western grain growers... leading to:

"Canadian Wheat Farmers Are Jailed
AP Online; November 1, 2002; 310 words ...staff. The farmers were charged in 1996 under the Canada Customs Act of illegally transporting grain across the U.S. border...wheat south of the border, instead of $2.20 from the Canadian Wheat Board. The farmers jailed Thursday had been ordered to pay..."


So today... after 3 tries to free barley... and grain growers in prision for selling their own produce... Manitoba demands the CWB remain.

You are right to say Dave... THIS IS PAINFUL!!!

[Burbert]

REMEMBER folks, the Harpie is building a
whole buncha new prisons. So it will be
very important that they don't sit vacant.
Lottsa room fer political prisoners that
don't tow the government line. Cud be the
end of democracy as we know it today..
What duh yeah think????????

[charliep]

malleefarmer

The issue on Crow was it applied to crops (read raw material) but not processed/value added products. As an example, crow subsidized the export of barley but resulted in higher feed barley prices to the livestock sector. Just to get some of the guys blood boiling, it subidized the exporting of jobs and tax revenue to other parts of the world - not a good expenditure of tax payers dollars. It was part of what Canada gave up in trade negotiations at that point in time in the mid 1990's.

What would the world be like if crow benefit were still here? Suspect value added wouldn't be occurring here to the extent it is now (particularly canola and livestock recognizing the pain in the latter over the past 8 to 10 years because of other factors). As an economist, the crow benefit entitlement would have got built into land values - some here would have had a higher net worth. New entrants in the past 15 years or farms that have expanded wouldn't be any better off. This was what the payout mid 1990's was meant to offset.

[wilagro]

The Crow payout was peanuts...it should have been ten times as much as it was, if not more. The economic hit to the farmer was huge as the freight charges dumped on the producer were excessive.

Any producer who lived far from the nearest export or processing point got little for his grain after freight was deducted. It made a dramatic change in the way farmers grew grain and in some cases the whole farm production was shifted to growing feed grains or livestock production. The final mail in the coffin to the small grain farmer was the extensive railway abandonment policy which has pretty well been completed by now.

The Alberta government spent millions of dollars lobbying for the Crow to end knowing full well of the problems that this would cause for farmers.

[FarmRanger]

Had the CWB single desk ended at the same
time as the crow, we would have undoubtedly
seen development of domestic processing of
board grains in western Canada. Unfortunately
the CWB policy of socking it to anyone who
wanted to develop any value added industry here
had the effect of driving away domestic
processing.

It's the "us" versus "them" mentality that shrinks
and weakens the entire industry.

[Hopperbin]

Hey mallie what is the average rail worker earnings per year in Australia?
An retired one here told me 108 thousand dollars now. Also the same as mine workers. Just wondering how us Canadians compare on the wage scale.
Seems like everyone and their dog is going on strike lately.

[LWeber]

QUOTE
The Crow payout was peanuts...it should have been ten times as much as it was, if not more.
UNQUOTE
____________________________________

Jean Luc Pepin wanted to pay out 10-13 times more than Goodale did. Charlie Mayer wanted to pay out 5-7 times more than Goodale did.

The NFU - SWP - AWP - MPE all killed the larger payout...

Were you one of the men that was on the weekend plane to Ottawa to derail Pepin's plan Wilagro?

Are these men accountable today?

Do you find it ironic that the same groups that were opposed to the Crow Payout are no longer in existence today. Those that are still around are opposing this CWB change too.

How different would the landscape be today with a 13 billion dollar Crow payout in 1982/83?