U.S.: In state of denial over taxes?

[begood]

Ive noticed that too.

[TOM4CWB]

Wheatking,

"Are you for real Tom."

All right... what is so bad about being positive... and looking at issues from a historic and cultural perspective?

Could it be that history does repeat itself... and that billions of folks through history who looked at our humanity and future in a different context than you have... are not wrong?

If we are wrong... what have we lost other than 'Loving our neighbour as ourselves' and 'Turning the other cheek' as our truthful intentions, instead of responding the alternative actions; Wheatking?

Am I perfect? Far from it.

But I can not see the harm in a little heaven on earth each day!

Hope you have great crops and a good harvest!

[sumdumguy]

Life will go on. I think the US will wake up one
day and say ,"lets pump our own oil, no more
importing" and lets scale back these wars. Lets
put America to work by wage roll- backs, no
more medicare., There will be some bitter pills to
swallow, egos will be deflated but taxing the rich
is not the answer, asking those guys to figure out
a reverse course is.

[TOM4CWB]

sumdumbguy,

What I have never been able to figure out... is that all the conventional economists tell us we must have at least 3 percent growth in our national economies each year. India and China are 'powerhouse' economies... because they have 8-10 percent growth?

Can the present global economic system have integrety and keep growing for ever?

'Inflation is evil' we are told... yet isn't India and China growing because of inflation in reality?

But its OK because they are saving the world from otherwise certain economic collapse?

What is the true end game here???

What have I missed?

[sumdumguy]

The inflation rate is much higher than the
statistics indicate. I believe that the government
is deliberately pumping out low inflationary
numbers in order to keep interest rates low.
Eventually the capital will move to the countries
with better rates. I'm a bit suspicious that the low
rates are partially propping up the US and at the
same time propping up the banks.

The banks are getting free money, yet the bank
profits aren't indicative of the advantage. Rather
unsettling.

[TOM4CWB]

sumdumbguy,

'The banks are getting free money, yet the bank
profits aren't indicative of the advantage.'

The banks are being 'recapitalised' by the this low cost of money. In real terms they have recaptured many billions... to pay for the losses in the collapse and replace equity lost in 2007/8.

[sumdumguy]

For sure, we'll never know how mismanaged they
were, but the savers and the elderly paid for it. I
shpuld say they are paying for it everyday.

The question remains. What is the true rate of
inflation?

[TOM4CWB]

sumdumbguy,

Isn't the true rate of inflation... determined by the increase in money supply?

If we allow interest to be charged... there must be the amount of currency created... to cover the value of interest being charged.

Yet when loans are lent out... the currency required to pay the interest on the loan... is yet to be created.

If the loan is spent on a productive asset... that then has some value to add to the economy... this investment creates real prosperity.

However... if the same loan is spent on a consumer product that is not adding to the productivity of the economy... and interest is being charged on top of this loan value... this must further create inflation.

As currency is now created out of 'thin air'... no matter if it is gold backed or not... if there is an increase in gold, currency... or both... if there is more money around... assets will be worth less.

AS interest is paid on a loan, the currency needed to pay the interest must be created to keep balance in the system or there will be deflation.

So zero interest is the key to reducing interest... but that then means that saving currency should cost.... instead of pay the depositer... reverse to what has happened for a very long time!

bUT WHY SHOULD IT COST MONEY TO HOLD CURRENCY... THAT COST NOTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE BACAUSE IT WAS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR?

My mind is in circles!

What is real?

If we grow 'new' grain... and someone needs to buy that grain... where does the currency come from? Steel/copper the came.

[TOM4CWB]

I forgot to mention... that the bank did not lend out my money/currency when I put it in the bank.... because I can go get my currency back without taking it back from the theoretical person who it was lent to.

[sumdumguy]

The banks lending your money etcetera just
confuses the issue. Goto CPI Calculator
Minneapolis Federal Reserve Bank chart.

If not for this expansionary monetary policy can
you imagine where the inflation rate would be?
shades of 1932. This is very scarey to me
because it is not sustainable without,as you say
producing wealth. Just increasing the money
supply will force more and more dollars to chase
fewer and fewer goods- hyperinflation. But no,
lets have hyperinflation and tell the people we
have low inflation- we can coast along, people
will have diminished buying power and they'll
stamd there on the sidelines scratching there
heads like Tom and Sumdumguy are doing.
We're being fed a line of hooey by our
governments but I believe that there are more
and more Toms and they are getting scared and
the economy is stagnating so we have what is
called stagflation. This is my take on the current
economy.

I don't like to be fed a line of crap by the
governments because then I tend to want to
doubt all statistics.

Then is just becomes a blurr and no one can sort
the chaff from the grain.

So even though I don't follow my theory, I believe
that the long term borrower on real goods will be
the winner. He will pay back these loans with
cheap dollars as illustrated in the CPI charts.

The trick is to buy productive assets, ones that
consistently produce the necessities of life.

Agrivillers give me your ideas, I want to know
what Cotton, Tom and Mallee and all positive
thinkers say, am I out to lunch?
Agrivillers give me your ideas.

[fjlip]

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Can any one see a "positive" on this clock?

Can you say "US is toast"?

[TOM4CWB]

I like this one!

http://nationaldebtclocks.com/canada.htm

You can see how we compare to each other!

United States - Canada - United Kingdom - France - Germany - Netherlands - Ireland - Greece - Italy - Spain - Portugal - Japan - Australia- New Zealand - Sweden

Are all on this site!