Just thinking about Winnipeg...

[silverback]

as a winter holiday spot. Just kidding.

As the directors of the board continue the downward spiral death dance for the corporation, I got to wondering what do you suppose is happening behind the scenes in downtown Winnipeg?

What are the chances that salary increases are being ramped up right now? What are the chances that pension benefits are being increased and enhanced right now? What are the chances that part time workers are being made into full time workers? What are the chances that bonuses are being ramped up? Vacation pay increases? Expense accounts being padded and used at dizzying levels with little oversight or critique? What are the chances that someones relative might suddenly be hired for some "contract" work? What about some smokin hot grain contracts for some "select" producers who have grain of unnaturally "good" characteristics?

Is there anyone out there really overseeing the day to day operations of this behemoth that is not interested in it's survival at all costs?

(i apologize if this was brought up before, and I am sure tom, pars, or depape have, but brain retention is very low right now - and always!)

[bucket]

What is worse is the fact the cwb is over in China trying to undercut the russians on feed wheat.

Maybe charliep could comment on the amount of feed wheat stocks the cwb has or will have and why they are chasing low market with high value spring wheat from canada?

We got burned on the last deal with china. I think that Ritz should step in now and end the madness.

[TOM4CWB]

Interesting.

Thinking about the Camrose meeting... and us undercutting ourselves...

If the CWB price discriminates selling China/Korea etc. cheap wheat... what stops them from shipping the flour back at cut rate prices?

Why doesn't the 'lowest' price end up back here in Canada and the US?

Is this how the US got a $80/t discount... if they can get it... other than freight... (which the CWB seems to discount the wheat so the miller can export) do CDN millers also get the cheap wheat?

I note in every other industry... as Princess says... the customer pays the freight. But the CWB pays the freight and charges growers! WHY? PNW wheat growers do not pay the ocean freight... yet the CWB deducts it from us... why?

So many questions come from the Camrose CWB meeting... VP Gord Flaten saying he shows all 4000 sales each year to the Directors!

Lets see... Manitoba's Premier says there are 2000 people working at the CWB in Manitoba... on 4000 contracts... that is 2 contracts on averge per person per year! WHAT was he taking about?

How much do these folks make per year? $70K in Manitoba for an average round number? 35K per contract... just for Labour???

[charliep]

Not sure on the quality profile of wheat stocks in the elevator system or CWB sales activities in August.

Information is available on 2010/11. Increased volumes to South Korea would all be feed wheat.

CWB has been making feed wheat sales to the US (Texas).

[URL="http://www.grainscanada.gc.ca/statistics-statistiques/ecgwf-egcfb/2011/exports-exportations-11-07-eng.pdf"]page 15[/URL]

<a href="http://www.cwb.ca/public/en/newsroom/releases/pdf/cropyearend2011.pdf">slide 14</a>

China was a relatively small customer in 2010/11.

[jdepape]

Bucket - perhaps not the right thread to share
this story, but this talk of discounting in China
made me think of it.

A number of years ago we were awash in feed
wheat. One company - a multinational with
operations in Canada - saw this as an
opportunity and sold 3 cargoes to S Korea.

Now the grain trade is a small community that
likes to talk so this got back to the CWB fairly
quickly. Imagine - the Winnipeg office of a
multinational selling feed wheat without talking to
the CWB first!

When the trader finally did call the CWB to
negotiate, the world price had dropped a fair
amount, but the CWB, with their taut negotiating
skills, would only offer a price that reflected the
market at the time of the sale to S Korea. They
were not going to allow this bandit to make a
profit from shorting the CWB!

The trader declined. Over the next few weeks he
called periodically in an effort to cover the sale
and even thought the world market was dropping,
the CWB never dropped it's price to him on these
cargoes. They had him by the short hairs, so to
speak.

As the shipping period for the sale was coming
up, the trader went one last time to the CWB in
an attempt to negotiate a purchase from it. And
one last time, the CWB stuck to it's fixed price,
even though by now the world price for feed
wheat had dropped as much as $50/tonne.

Unable to negotiate with the CWB, the
multinational simply covered the sale with
Australian wheat. You see, the CWB didn't
realize that the trader had sold the wheat with an
"optional origin" clause, meaning the seller could
originate the wheat from wherever it chose. They
arrogantly believed that since it was the Winnipeg
office of this company that made the sale, he
must have sold Canadian wheat.

Because of the CWB's negotiating tactics, he
chose Australia and the CWB (farmers) lost an
important sale.

Price discrimination in action.

[bucket]

depape

I understand the story but answer this - Why would the cwb chase a feed wheat market with #1cwrs?

The crop to date indicates a high quality year. If the feed wheat supplies are low they easily get blended off.

So why would the cwb chase a low quality market that russia could fill, with high quality western canadian wheat?

[wilagro]

Since all you guys seem to know so bloody much about grain marketing why didn't the CWB seek you out to act on their behalf. With all your expertise Canadian farmers would have benefited greatly. You all have missed your calling...pity.

[newguy]

When I make a mistake. Lesson learned. When I pay an expert and they make a mistake. Someone gets fired.

[bucket]

So wilagro, you are okay with the cwb chasing a feed wheat market with the best wheat in the world????

[bucket]

And wilagro, I phoned the cwb the other day to have an ergot program implemented the same way the fusarium program is done every year BUT the stupid person at the cwb didn't know who implements the programs. Still waiting for a response. And when you think about ergot it is a cleanable problem and since I pay cleaning fees the cwb and the grain companies should be able to figure something out. Right?

[parsley]

Why silver, you're sounding a tad cynical.

[silverback]

Me? Nah.

I am supposed to have faith in my fellow man, or gov't agency. Right?

(Even though they don't trust me to sell my own products)

[chuckChuck]

Silverback's post illustrates a point about many of the arguments put forth by those who don't like the CWB.

Without a shred of evidence Silverback speculates about a whole lot of extra money or benefits going to CWB employees. Pretty typical of the BS and irrational arguments put forth by many posters on agriville.

What about the benefits and salaries in the private and public companies that are about to take over the grain trade in Western Canada? Any concerns there Silverback?

You know very well that the compensation to the top executives at the CWB pales in comparison to the corporate grain trade. Or perhaps you don't know this?

Next time you bring up bogus arguments designed to discredit the CWB, you might want to consider that your lack of analysis, comparisons, or actual evidence, illustrates very well your lack of fairness and understanding of the issues.

Making irrational and over the top accusations may play well to your agriville friends but in the real world your accusations are just hot air with no substance.

[jdepape]

chuckChuck:

I think Silverback’s post illustrates very well his mistrust of all things “CWB”. The fact that, after all that has been said and done by the CWB, you think the CWB is above reproach shows your blind faith in all things “CWB”.

Perhaps you should focus on his main point:
“Is there anyone out there really overseeing the day to day operations of this behemoth that is not interested in it's survival at all costs?”

Can you address that one, chuckChuck? I think we can all answer it; sadly, the answer isn’t comforting. And that – I think – is where Silverback is coming from. He’s not at all comfortable with the approach the CWB has taken or is now taking.

By the way – his post did not make one “accusation” as you suggest. All questions. Questions that show the CWB has not won his trust or support.

Perhaps that’s the main problem here. The CWB and its supporters have done nothing to unite farmers – in fact, quite the opposite. Its legacy will be an intense polarization of the farm community. The irony here is that the whole idea of the CWB is the co-operative ideal of working together.

It should sadden all CWB supporters that it failed at its most basic level.

[chuckChuck]

Jdepape. I didn't say I blindly trust the CWB did I? But I have more trust in the management and the farmer elected Board of Directors to make the right decisions on behalf of the majority of producers.

Unlike the private and public companies that will take over, I get a vote on who becomes a director of the CWB. Perhaps you don't agree with many of the Directors, but the majority of voters who elected them must think their oversight has value.

You must be under the impression/delusion that everything that the private sector does, has the best interests of producers in mind. Private and public companies are responsible to their shareholders first not producers.

Again you are blaming the CWB for a political decision by the current government. This issue has been polarized since the beginning. Private grain traders never wanted the CWB to survive. If the CWB single desk was so bad, how did it manage to survive so long under various Liberal and Conservative governments? It did so because of farmer support. That support has been eroded because later generations of farmers are listening to critics like yourself and others who are aligned with private companies and favour a free market approach.

You are entitled to your perspective, but it is clearly not shared by the majority of producers who have elected the majority of Directors who favour the single desk.

This issue comes down to politics. One side wants to hand the grain trade over to the multinational traders. The other side wants to keep it in the hands of farmers.

Any debate about the effectiveness and performance of the CWB needs to be done in comparison with the performance and effectiveness of the private trade.

Simply comparing the performance of non-board crops and US market prices with the CWB doesn't tell the whole story.