canoe on Bill 18

[LWeber]

Since you have given license to comment on “grain issues without being a grain grower”, this has been festering inside me for some time, so I will apologize beforehand for the antipathy.

While our young western Canadian farmers were off in Europe saving Britain’s ass from Hitler in the name of freedom, their marketing freedom was stripped from their farms; without a vote.

I won’t bother with the “cheap wheat policy” and the difference between open market wheat and pooled wheat at the time – it seems to have been forgotten over time as to farmers paying the ultimate sacrifice both with lives and economically.

So the next time you christen an Alberta farmer an “AB communist conservative” or a “dummy”, best you ask him or her if they lost any relatives in World War II so that you or your relatives were not forced into the collective marketing of the Nazis.

You chose Canada to immigrate to Canada for a reason. I respect that right you chose.

You are offered the right to be a capitalist, rather than controlled by the State, because of what others sacrificed in the name of freedom; yet you rail against the same freedom that was taken with no other cause other than plentiful cheap food, from them.

Since you asked on a previous post – what was my point; this Sir was my point. You chose to move and forget the past. That I cannot respect.

If you have the balls to call someone a communist, have the guts to print your name with it.

[grassfarmer]

While I certainly respect the sacrifice Canadians made fighting in WW2 I find the modern generation of Canadians in general tend to overestimate their contribution and at the same time forget what was at stake. Canada's war dead in WW2 were a 10th of the UK's losses (45,000 versus 450,000) so it's not like you suffered all the pain. We too lost family members to this war as we have over the last several generations.
You can look back now and Canadians were fighting to "save Britain's ass" from Germany but at the time it was a world threat - unstopped the Axis threat may in time have overcome Canada. So you were also protecting your own interests - and rightly so.

As for the name calling you seem rather selective given the constant barrage of abuse unleashed on anyone not taking your side on the cwb issue. You are quite happy to see your friends call others socialists, communists, fascists dumb F***s but you have to question whether I am allowed to call someone a name - smacks of hypocricy don't you think?
Also I think if you went back and checked it was Parsley that christened the term "Conservative communist" referring to the AB Con. administration in the matter of the disputed Land bills but I don't recall you challenging her about her usage of the term.
I happen to have more creativity than to simply use my name as my user handle but I am equally not someone who hides out behind an alias. I'll guarantee that at least half a dozen posters on here could provide you with my name. Although it's like silverback (whoops! there's another guy that doesn't have the balls to put his name on his posts eh?)questioning what proportion of Jan Slomps family income comes from selling grain - what business is it of yours or are you going to come smash my windows or beat me up?

with equal antipathy,
grassfarmer

[LWeber]

Canadians in general tend to overestimate their contribution?

Canada's pop. in 1945 - 12 million

Britains pop. in 1945 - 47 million

Who sacrificed more?

How much wheat did British farmers sell for $1.00 or less during the War?

[silverback]

If janet slomp thinks it is his and his nfu comrades business to tell my family who I can sell my grain to, I think I have the right to ask him, the nfu, and any other left wing weenie if they actually have ANY skin in this cwb battle.

A dairy farmer in west central alberta that sells a little feed barley to the local feed mill has about as much stake in the cwb debate as an imported cattle man who sells his own grass fed beef out of his cooler. I guess I should be able to show up at the next big dairy conference and suggest they all give their dairy quota up willingly for the greater good of all farmers?

(btw, what's with the broken windows or beating up comment? paranoia? have you got neighbors up there that would do that? wow!)

[grassfarmer]

Math is clearly not your strong point Mr Webber. The country with 4 times the population and 10 times the deaths clearly lost a bigger proportion of their population to war (more than twice as many).

silverback, you demonstrate your usual flawed logic once again - a farmer growing grain but selling it for feed shouldn't be allowed to comment on the cwb but you with no dairy cows should be allowed to address a dairy convention. How does that work? How about the guys that grow canola, oats and peas are they allowed to comment on the cwb? on the milk issue? For someone that spouts freedom I thought you'd be in favor of allowing everyone to comment on everything, but maybe not.

[silverback]

You and your nfu pals are not spouting freedom grassy, you are actively promoting government control over your neighbors grain production. You guys can yap all you want, but if you keep promoting a government agency that uses the fear of jail time against farmers, you can bet someone is going to call you out on it.

Tell us what you would do if some group organized and paid by the big packers started a campaign that would force your own grass fed luing cattle to be slaughtered, bagged, boxed, and sold through Cargill in High River? I am sure you would sit by and claim they are free to promote that idea to the controlling government of the day?

The farmers that went to jail to finally gain freedom for WESTERN CANADIAN FARMERS are heros and deserve everyones thanks!

[ASRG]

The monopoly is gone. No need to keep fighting. Only time will tell if that was the right decision?
I kind of find it funny when people imply "immigrants" shouldn't be telling us "native Canadians" how things should be.....I guess we're all First Nations people here, right?
And please....let's not trot out WW II...that was 65 years ago and I doubt any of us were making that sacrifice!

[parsley]

ASRG
I'll pretty much discuss, drag out, mull and bitch
about pretty much what I choose to discuss, drag
out, mull and bitch about. That's what this forum
is all about.
World War II was a pivotal time because war
measures acts, worldwide, reigned agricultural
production. In Canada, governments had to find
a way to continue the war measure acts effects,
minus he actual act,so they created the CWB act.

The act provided cheap western-only
commodities for export commitments as well as
cheap feed grain to send to eastern Canada, as
well as install and uphold a domestic cheap food
policy.

Ive studied the internal ATI documents at Cabinet
level and they are very direct and understandable
but so very financially debilitating to the West.

Let's learn from the past. Pars

[parsley]

And when this new act is presented for being,
may I be so bold as to say get your collective
Western heads out of your farmer-ass, and read
every line of the act, including every revision that
pops up

There is not one single solitary government in
Canada who can exist without eying up tax
dollars.
Keep an eye out for your purse. Farmers left it
sitting in the middle of the godamm field so many
times before. Unlocked.

Checkoffs. Fees. Licenses. Acts.

Never trust a guy who'll ding you with an
automatic dinger when you are sleeping... He
checkoff sliding smoothly out of your cheque so
the deduction doesn't wake you. Or automatic
demurrage fees deducted to feed some crew
who needs a week in the bar before the next run.


And I do know lots of humans who actually
fought and killed other human beings in a war so
your sorry asses would have the waywithall to
feed your families with the money you earn from
the crop you grow.

Don't even get me started. Pars

[parsley]

Grassy,

You defend collectivity. But you did not address
my question I posed some time ago, so let's get it
out of the way:
1. Do you support Collective ownership of farms
and farmland?
2. Do you support property rights formfarm and
farmland?

I'm being mean to you this morning b/c you are
smart enough to know this is where you go off
the rails. But the point is... You have to decide
what your personal philosophy IS.

Either you are a communist or you are not a
communist. And reign in your tendencies to stray,
accordingly. Pars

[grassfarmer]

Parsley,
No I don't support Collective ownership of farms and farmland.
Yes, I support property rights for farm and farmland.

Where you think I stray from your rails is that I don't share the view that the cwb is an agency that steals from farmers. It's a farmer directed marketing board. If you don't like the way it operates elect different directors - truth is you have tried for years and been unable to because although the anti-cwb side accounts for 90% of the rhetoric on Agriville it is in the minority in the designated area. Time after time the grain growers have decided not to elect "reformers" like Tom Jackson.
I stand in the corner of the majority, who have repeatedly shown that they want to retain the cwb and the single desk selling. I believe these farmers have rights too, rights to elect the directors they want and freedom to retain the cwb as is if that is the consensus of the majority.
I don't think you'd be too happy if you woke up tomorrow and were told an NDP prime minister was taking over running the country and that the elected Conservative majority would be out on their ear. So why is it OK to do it in the cwb issue?

[ASRG]

parsley: Like I said I never made in any sacrifice and I don't think anyone who wasn't there has much to say about it.
My dad died young from war wounds he got in Holland. My uncle (who I never knew) was killed in Italy......those guys could bitch.....not you or me?
The monopoly is done......you won.....take a valium and enjoy your victory?
When you were a kid did you take great delight in rubbing it in that your team won the ball game? Or were you taught right....you tell the other team they played well and you appreciated their effort?
Remember?: It's not whether you win or lose but how you play the game.....did your mother never tell you that?

[parsley]

I'm an organic farmer and one of them who
worked hard to create a brand new unheard of
market with willing buyers and sellers; in a
process that didnt cost you a cent.

Organics was a system that was built upon free
selling and free buying until those sonofa*******
at the CWB stepped in, and expropriated the
selling of wheat and barley, undercut and ruined
the wheat and barley markets, and paid
themselves well.

I despise them for who they are as well as what
they maliciously ruin for self gain.

If you want to band together to sell products, I
applaud you because it shows the ability to co-
operate, the vision of planned expansion with
ample supply, managerial ability of scale, good
will, and an appreciation of a dedicated flow of
commerce.

You might want to think about this Viking curse:

"If you want to force me to join your band of
eleven or eleven hundred, either by threats, or
regulatory measures, or by simple sheer force,
then may your mind be cursed with voracious
flesh-eating maggots that torture each and every
one of your brain cells and each maggot shall
piss a boiling sting into each cell centre until you
collapse into the depths of the hell you so richly
deserve. After which I'll work on revenge for your
deeds of dirty force"

Clear cut isn't it. Pars

[parsley]

ASRG please read your dissertation to Allan
berg and the directors who continue to act, and
protest, and complain, as though the government
has no legitimacy, has no right as a majority to
rescind or revise legislation.

Farmers looking for, and working towards
meaningful change, have traditionally ignored the
antics of the NFU's David Orchard types who
chained themselves to the wall railings in the
hotels to protest against free markets. We've also
observed the Nettie Wiebe type communists
urging all governments to jail all farmers who
protest against the CWB. We've listened to the
likes of Ralph Goodale testifying in parliament
that the entire cost of the CWB licensing
department merely amounts to the salaries of a
couple of employees, which us such a lying,
deceptive answer, that even the bravest among
us is at a loss for words at such audacity.

We've been more than patient with the lies, the
bullshit, the meaness of Wheat Board
doctrinaires. They fit into one abbreviation: "my
way or jail".

And still whining.

I want this divorce decreed. So I never have to
hear Jan' s name again quoted from anything I
attend. Or Bob Roehle's on anything I sign. Or
watch Alan Oberg's being interviewed about any
wheat marketing on a radio program ever again.

Until then, they are like lice. Trying to feed off the
fruits of wheat and barley sales. Irritating. Trying
to multiply their own. Gorged full.

If i get a bit bitchy it's because I'm Itchy. Pars.

[highwayman]

Grassy if the single desk supporters are truly in the majority as you claim than the board should have no problems attracting deliveries in a voluntary pool should they? But we both know based on every board survey from the last 10 years or more that the large majority of farmers want choice, don't we. As far as single deskers having rights, when it comes to my property, they have no rights! Get it!!