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Canola crushing margins excessive in Canada?

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    #16
    chuckChuck - afraid you can't say this isn't about the CWB - because it is.

    Canola prices to farmers are pushed lower by poor cash flow from CWB grains. This is not some theory I've cooked up - it's a reality shared by many, many farmers who sell canola for cash flow - and keep selling regardless of the price. The reaction by buyers (including crushers) to this tsunami of canola coming into the system is to lower the price (widen the basis). This has nothing to do with oil and meal prices, so obviously the crush margins "benefit" from this.

    Once cash flow is taken care of, farmers tend to just look at the flat price of canola. What they need to do is consider spreads more in their marketing strategies. This will come as they now have wheat to do the same with. Spreads will give incentives to sell wheat or canola - and there will be times when the arrow points to wheat, at which time canola will stay in the bin; this will help tighten up the basis (and crush margins).

    Another factor is that storage rates on canola futures are not enough to "compensate" for the full opportunity cost of storing canola. Most primary elevator operators handle both wheat and canola - futures spreads are a market mechanism to pay to store grain. The mistake most people make when looking at this is to simply compare "earning the carry" in futures to earning elevations from handling canola. The full story is that the elevators also look at what they need in order to handle wheat. They compare holding canola in their elevator at full carry to CWB wheat elevations and cleaning etc.

    Since the storage rates will push the spreads only so far (full carry), the rest of the carry economics equation is pushed into the basis. For example, if the Nov/Jan spread is $8.00 at full carry, an elevator operator may say that's not enough to compensate for a loss of handling CWB wheat (because his space is taken up with canola) - he may need $20 to carry inventory (and compensate for lost CWB grain earnings) and so an additional $12 goes into the basis. Large CWB elevation tariffs lead to large spreads and wider canola basis levels.

    Crushers don't handle wheat but they will set their prices competitively - so their bids also widen.

    If you don't believe me, talk to the crushers and ask them what they think the CWB change will do to their margins. They will say (have said) crush margins will suffer (get smaller).

    Getting rid of the single desk means more competition and all the good things that come with it. Period.

    Comment


      #17
      Forgot to mention. ICE futures has looked at this issue regarding storage rates on futures paper. We recently increased the storage rate to provide more storage incentive in the spreads to reduce the impact on basis. With the removal of the single desk and its expected impact, this will be watched carefully and further increases in storage rates on futures may not be needed.

      Also - on the new wheat contract, storage rates were set at the same as the new canola rates, also to keep basis tighter.

      Comment


        #18
        For what it is worth, the below is the board crush margin published by Canadian Oilseed Processors Association every week. Highlight this is a theoretical board crush margin based on futures values and not a real crush margin based on canola purchases from farmers and oil/meal sales to customers.

        [URL="http://www.copaonline.net/documents/COPAWEEKLYDECEMBER142011.pdf"]COPA[/URL]

        Will note that canola is running 85 % capacity versus soybeans at 59 %.

        Comment


          #19
          "This is a theoretical board crush margin based on futures values and not a real crush margin based on canola purchases from farmers and oil/meal sales to customers".

          So what good is this if it is "theoretical"?

          There was once a theory that the moon was made of "cream cheese" but that was not so.

          Comment


            #20
            Good question. I'm not the one using as performance measure so I am assuming you are asking chuckChuck.

            As an economist, I use as a way of measuring the relationship between canola and product values over time. Rough estimate only because it doesn't deal with cash market values/basis levels or the differences between markets canola oil and meal are sold in. The board crush margin is not a measure of profitability.

            Comment


              #21
              The important point to consider is that canola crushers will take excess margins when the market conditions alow it to happen.

              This happens at the expense of producers.

              In a very efficient, competitive market that is working well, this should not happen.

              Charlie. So when it is it not in the interest of farmers to be concerned about excess margins and trying maximize returns from the marketplace?

              Many you are quite happy to criticize the CWB but when it comes to concerns in the open market you have got nothing negative to say.

              Comment


                #22
                chuck maybe if someone else was asking the question. Your jaded view of
                the CWB through rose colored glasses and the lack of any criticism of the
                CWB system has probably contributed to the responses you recieve.

                Until you answer the CWB questions without prejudice you cannot expect
                others to answer your questions.

                Comment


                  #23
                  I wouldn't even call it theoretical. The soybean crushing industry has always referred to "board crush" - relating to the relationship between beans and its products. Board margins are a market tool like any other spread relationship. There are historical levels that are often used as indicators of the current market. Like any other index - they are used to indicate to the industry things like the current viability of crushing, what is driving the crush (is it oil-led or meal-led?), and can help forecast things like future appetite for beans (which leads to basis adjustments), etc, etc.

                  The Canadian canola crushers publish board margins to provide market information. Unfortunately, with the market distortions from the CWB, the board margin is not as good a tool as it will be in the future - once we no longer have the CWB distortions.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    chuckChuck

                    We would have to agree to what excess margins are - don't know if that is possible. I will highlight the canola industry is growing at an extremely rapid pace and is characturized by profitability at close to every stage. Growth in acres. Growth in domestic crushing capacity. Growth in export demand. This to me is a sign of success. The industry has been able to grow based on collaboration at all stages of the supply chaing - not confrontation and bickering.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      ChuckChuck: "The important point to consider is that canola crushers will take excess margins when the market conditions alow it to happen."

                      I agree.

                      The next thing to consider seriously is what has caused the "market conditions" to allow it. And this where you fail - you don't even want to consider that this is a CWB issue. But you cannot fail to acknowledge that the "market conditions" that impact on crush margins include the substantial and wide-reaching impacts of the CWB in its former structure (with a single desk). In other words, what you are complaining about happened in a CWB single desk environment.

                      To have a credible argument you need to be open to all possible factors.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        As an economist Rossassen should know the
                        laws of supply and demand.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Depape. Okay just to to satisfy your penchant to blame the CWB for farmers taking a drubbing in canola market after harvest. Let me agree with that suggestion since, you agreed the crushing industry is taking excess margins when it can.

                          But what happens after the CWB in a fully open market when the supply of many grains exceeds the demand in a recession? Farmers still have cash flow needs. If excess margins are currently occurring in the canola market with public price discovery and risk management tools imagine what is happening in special crops.

                          Take red lentils right now. The current price sucks at .15 cents because of oversupply. What are the overseas buyers paying now versus when the price was closer to .30 cents? Do you think traders might be taking extra margin? Has the price at the retail level dropped by 50% in consuming countries? If it hasn't dropped by 50% where is the difference going? Who is taking the extra margin?

                          By the way much of the recent increase in prices for many commodities is being driven by ethanol and bio-fuel policy in the US which is pushing corn acres up at the expense of other crops. Essentially farmers are benefiting from government intervention in the ag. markets.

                          When commodity prices fluctuate significantly lower are the savings always passed to consumers? No. Retail prices seem fairly constant.
                          Excessive margins are a reality in many parts of the food chain.

                          How often do farmers benefit from excess margins?

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Chuck,

                            In my experience the CWB was the fastest to lower the PRO... then stop growers from selling... even if the price ended up dropping another 20 percent the next crop year.

                            The CWB never knew the future... just as you cannot know what wheat prices will be in 18 months.

                            It is clearly much more intelligent and reasonable to allow growers to sell now than force them to hold wheat till next year... a million tonnes sold now by western Canadian wheat growers out of a 650M tonne plus wheat market means diddly.

                            Back to reality for just a second... the 'single desk' was a farce... market discipline by growers is 10 times more effective than the CWB 'single desk' ever was!

                            And Canola prices... prove this beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt!

                            Nice try though... my bet is now fall prices in Canada will get better... basis will tighten up... as cash flow needs are met by wheat and canola market forces must bid up prices to buy acres and deliveries!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              chuckChuck

                              I assume profitability in all aspects of the supply
                              chain is a good thing. What is your definition of
                              excess margin? Do all businesses including farmers
                              have the same cost structure?

                              If you believe there is excess margin (I assume you
                              mean profit), what system would you suggest to
                              deal with this? More regulation? In a world where
                              Canada competes for investment dollars for
                              processsing, would more regulation be a good
                              things or bad thing? Is investment in logistic and
                              processing capacity in Western canada a good thing
                              or bad thing?

                              Comment


                                #30
                                I will note crush capacity in western Canada has gone
                                from about 1 million tonnes to over 7 million tonnes in
                                the past 20 years. Is this a good thing for western
                                Canadian farmers? In terms of profit per acre, where
                                does canola rate relative to other crops? How about
                                ability to generate cash flow when money is needed to
                                pay bills?

                                Comment

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