Organics not safer

[hedgehog]

wd9, i forgot the main reason i started quitting in 2007, the organic police stopped me importing chicken manure to balance the wheat i sold for chicken food.
they wanted to see an actual reduction in soil p and k before they would sanction imported muck.
that was the final straw.
i agree with you on pesticide free food.

[oneoff]

This is one of the more sensible, informative and measured threads I have ever seen on agri-ville. Perhaps the extremists on both far out ends of every debate usually get noticed a lot more than the majority who are seeking real information and workable solutions.

[Tucker]

I don't believe the organic 'movement' has as much traction in the US as here and
Europe. They just don't trust the statement that organic is safer down there. I
personally know an organic dairy farmer who raises organic alfalfa to feed to his
organic dairy cows but actually feeds his neighbors hay and sells his own alfalfa as
organic. While I don't personally know any organic types who spray at night, that's the
perception down there.

Around here the only organic guys are the ones who are raping their land for a few
years before they sell out because their credit is shot at the fert and chem dealers. I
have a weedy organic producer on the other side of one of my fields. You really can't
tell me that a spindly, stunted wheat plant that has three kernels on the head is
better for me than my full, long head of wheat.

If we all went organic, the world would starve. Good on you organic types that you're
keeping your production down and mostly taking your acres out of production so that we
evil 'conventional' farmers can still make a buck.

[oneoff]

But it still goes back to the fact that year after year there is seldom any profit (net return) from the sale of farm production. What sustains the farmers are government subsidies and off farm income sources and second jobs of family members.

[hobbyfrmr]

Oneoff, sounds like Tucker's farm is doing just fine! Most conventional farms look like the are doing well. Newer machinery,high clearance sprayers, hired men running the autosteer, huge yeilds and higher prices. Win Win. Its been a while since farming has gone this well.

[farmaholic]

First of all I would like to say that not all organic farms are failures but there were very few(if any)success stories around here. Number one, you have to be a good farmer to start with. I also found alot of the guys who attempted it didn't like spending money to produce a conventional crop. I beleive there is a right way of doing it with plowdowns and alfalfa in rotation. Guys here would let their "summerfallow" get out of hand and go to seed, nothing a dead rod mounted on a cultivator wouldn't cure and it keeps the trash on top to reduce erosion. I think they have to be even more meticulous than the conventional farmer. And yes, in this area there are alot more conventional farms with shiney iron than organic farms. I am not justifying the myriad of chemical cocktails applied to crops to accomplish this but it does produce grain. Whether or not it is environmentally friendly and without adverse health effects.... I doubt it.

[hedgehog]

farmaholic, very well said.
by the way, i wasnt playing at it i had 1500 acres organic crops.
my view was there should be no paper trail which can be "altered" but every organic prodcer should take a pledge, like the AA,s do., not to spray.

[sumdumguy]

Tucker, isnt all hay organic?

[gustgd]

Great discussion. I would think that the main
premise of the article should stand. That
customers and consumers can believe whatever
they like.
Its the advertising of organics as healthier
or safer that we as "conventional farmers"
have a problem with.
When organics have their customer base smugly
telling everyone they know that organics are
healthier. That's a great marketing story!
Yet organic's who cry when someone who calls
shenanigans forget that these people are
consumers as well.
They too feel that being called stupid, for
not eating organic is insulting.

Question. I have bought a certified organic
farm/ranch, farmed by a "good" organic
farmer. I never paid an organic premium for
the land. Would you A) keep it in organic for
short period of time to keep certification.
B) seed it all to Canola and "clean" it up.
This is land that we bought as an investment.
No intention of keeping long term. It is just
outside of our wheel house of farming
efficiently. Farther away, lots of potholes
and slough's. Capital gains exemption is used
up.
Thanks

[cottonpicken]

Hate to sidetrack a thread but on what bduke said,is
it not the fact that we have so many overweight
people walking around because they are counting
calories and not carbs? Which is what our body burns
for energy.

If you start looking at carbs and how much are in
some foods you would be very surprised.