Are ratepayers meant to have no input into their rural municipal governance

[hobbyfrmr]

Jack sprat, I have not read all the lengthy posts,
but I would suggest, just go sit in at the council
meetings. RM councils meet once a month, if you
are a taxpayer in that municipality you can sit and
listen to the meetings live. Then you can get as
much facts as anyone possibly can. Then, if you
choose, you can relay them to whomever you
want in whatever public medium you desire.

[hobbyfrmr]

Jack sprat, I have not read all the lengthy posts,
but I would suggest, just go sit in at the council
meetings. RM councils meet once a month, if you
are a taxpayer in that municipality you can sit and
listen to the meetings live. Then you can get as
much facts as anyone possibly can. Then, if you
choose, you can relay them to whomever you
want in whatever public medium you desire.

[jackspratwhynot]

QUOTE What exactly is it that has you so fired up about Northgate? Do you live there? Do you have land in the area? I don't understand. Or is it the pure fact that you don't know what is going on and it is driving you crazy? You say that you attend council meetings - why aren't you on council? Do you feel you are too good for them and your ideas too brilliant so you're just going to sit back and annoy them instead? Have you considered the fact that possibly they are forced into "secret" meetings because of you and your actions? I'm sure that the accusations you have tossed out on this forum time and time again aren't limited to this avenue. I've read some of your other posts here and you seem to have a common topic - your RM council is conspiring against you and the rest of the ratepayers. It would be one thing if you would have left your RM nameless, but you have actually named it. And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to then figure out who you are claiming used "insider information" to make a profit. Do YOU have the FACTS to back those statements up with? You seem to want everyone else to lay out the facts they have - where's yours? Your's are pure and simple assumptions you have conjured up in your own mind. Have you considered the fact that possibly they don't know? That its possible this "entity" has chosen to remain nameless and anonymous until they have finished securing said land. And if you are so concerned about the future of Northgate where were you a year ago when the government decided to cease their postal services? The residents weren't given a choice there. They were told. Seems to me you are just jealous of the land sales happening. Infact you stated that neither you nor I were going to get "in on that action". I think it is driving you crazy to see this land selling for the prices you say it is. I say "good for them". Have you considered the possiblity that whatever money your RM has sold the lots for there will be used to benefit the RM somewhere else where funds wouldn't have otherwise been able to be alloted to? Maybe you need to step back off your high horse and think about the other possibilities instead of being so quick to lay blame and assume the worst in people. You say you want to see more people take action and be involved in RM issues and council, but how many people are going to be willing to step up and put themselves out there knowing there is a malicious and ignorant person judging and monitoring their every move. This personality is exactly the reason these types of decisions aren't put out for public knowledge. Putting such information out before all the facts are known is dangerous.I can see you being upset if such an unknown "facility" development was being erected beside your house - but is it? Then what right do you have? Is it a possibility the purchased lots are actually possibly going to be developed into more housing? Do you actually have a CLUE? Sounds to me like you're just speculating and starting rumors yourself. Why not be patient and see how the whole scenario plays out before getting your underwear in a knot? Regardless of if its oil or grain as others have speculated don't either of these commodities have the ability to boost your local economy? And shouldn't that be considered a positive? UNQUOTE

I respond with the hope that this is not a complete waste of my time.

I understand the reeve says all public lands at Northgate have been sold; but I know it has not been registered with ISC yet. Absolutely no details are provided by council; or that ratepayers even got enough to pay for the administrators time; land transfer costs; title searches; value of surveying literally handreds of lots, streets and lanes; and a whole townsite probably provided to one buyer (with no possibility for public input). I have requested information and been denied any details. Whatever the deal; it has been deliberately hidden from the public. No mention made in the Council Minutes monthly summary given to the newspaper.
I have several lands in the RM; and the combined assessments of land, improvements, oil wells, facilities and improvements on those lands is amongst the highest (if not the greatest) of any other landowner that I can think of.
My ideas are not apparently well received by some persons who have quite viciously attacked me. In fact I believe I am in the same blacklist that a councillor once told me "No matter what request (a certain businessman) came to council with; that he would get a negative response (from that councillor).
I have more education than most of my peers and am not ashamed of it. Neither have I mentioned (more than three or four times in my entire life) those suffixes that I am entitled to add to the end of my signature. I have to sit back at council chambers because my input has rarely if ever been sought by council. However, I have spent countless hours sharing all my knowledge with anyone who has ever approached me. I am proud to think that those people (sometimes from the most unexpected places) still frequently come to me for advice and expertise on several areas that I have some expertise. I can't ever recall asking for or receiving one cent for that "free advice". I am half decent at researching and digging up details; and certainly not afraid to ask questions; or defend causes that may not currently seem to have popular support.
I do not agree with your characterization of myself; and have no idea on how you came to your conclusions. However I can accept that you do believe what you have said; and I will still sleep soundly tonight. I hope that someday everyone will be able to think for themselves.
I know my limitations and mistakes I've made; and can pick out mistakes in logic and facts in other people's arguments. I learn from debates and discussions and occassional arguments.

It is true that many ratepayers (possibly even yourself) believe that council meetings must be conducted in secret; and for that reason alone I would never again consider a council position (under present attitudes and circumstances). I would be knowingly breaking the Municipal Act or be a part of a council that conducts itself in those manners..
Further; electors such as yourself will never have any intention of allowing someone such as myself at the council table. It is quite possible that many council members would work as diligently as they ever have to ensure that persons such as myself never sat at a council table. I can accept that fate; and rationalize that I will secretly thank them for relieving me from the work required to properly fulfil a council position. After all it should involve wide consultation with the division ratepayers; research and thought, many unpaid hours; and not having council always meet the expectations of all ratepayers at every time.
I know for a fact that in the past I have won a position on council by defeating the incumbant with about 85% of the votes. So at least one time in the past (if not the present); there was some confidence of the ratepayers placed on myself. I could still point to some of my proposals that still provide tangible benefits to the municipality. On my own terms; I resigned for reasons that I would not endure any longer.
You and people of your ilk are only interested in making sure that dissenting views, every idea and suggestion contrary to your beliefs is thwarted and given no opportunity for a public hearing.
I have no CLUE as to what will finally transpire with future developmentat Northgate. I know some of the concerns and questions and protections that should be asked and addressed before final approval of any proposal. People such as dustyroad and cottonpicken and council members have no intention to sharing the inside information that they claim to possess. This information can potentially be used for personal gain from any entrepeneur; and for those in public office there is a further requirement to declare any potential conflicts of interest as it pertains to council decisions and perceptions on matters such as sale of RM property. Contact Municipal advisors in Regina if that isn't clear to any reader. That obligation rests solely on the shoulder of anyone to whom it applies.
I am looking for the facts and there are those who arrogantly and inappropriately would deny everyone (including myself). You could at least refer me to how you learned the details; that all the above named persons admit they possess. There is a story here; and it will and should come out.

There are those who have diverted this into a pissing match amongst skunks. I intended to only seek the facts before it is to late to offer input that could maximize the benefits of what should be potentially competing offers and options for development. I will not accept development plans that are deliberately hidden from the "owners" of public property.
Now if it turns out that no one knows what the plans are; who the non-Canadians are; and what the real agenda, plans and intentions are; then always remember that I wanted to and tried to ask those questions; and the general public had even less knowledge than even myself.

And I, and the interested public, am no wiser about what cottonpicken, dustyroad or council members know.
If this project doesn't turn out to involve a Chicago base company (which other persons know is for Canadian oil speculated to be sent to Chinese destinations) desirous of 250,000 barrels per month; to be ramped up to 2,000,000 barrels per month; then there were at least two inteseted parties. Was the first interest accepted without even checking out other potential proposals? And did anyone consider about potash transportation requirement for all the new mines; not to mention processiong, nearby Bakken oil fields that may well soon extend a few or many miles in every direction.
Thats about all I have to say; but probably not what many want to hear.


There may well come a time when I may become fully "cynical and disengaged". You know they even have special sessions at SUMA conventions as to how to deal with such persons. That proves to me that there are quite a few around the province and that municipal leadership has not fully lived up to their responsibilities in a supposed democratic country.

[cottonpicken]

I will give you one thing,government corruption at
any level is bullshit.

[oneoff]

Valid point. Thanks

[hobbyfrmr]

Valid point? This person is a taxpayer on some of
the highest assessed land in his RM. They sold
hamlet/rm land to some American company. He is
insanely curious to know what is going on. He is
making allegations of secret meetings and
stonewalling taxpayers when, everyone knows
that IF YOU ARE A TAXPAYER YOU CAN SIT IN
ON THE MONTHLY MEETINGS. You can start a
taxpayers petition to present to council asking for
a public meeting about this issue.
My interpretation in all this, is an educated
person missed out on some sweet action property
play right under his nose and now wants to stick
his nose in there, but...alas he is being slapped on
the nose because it does not belong there.
Just go to an rm meeting.

[cottonpicken]

What i won't give you is the capacity to chew gum and
walk at the same time.

You've treated me like dirt for a few years and now
expect me to spill my guts?

Want me to tell you about the "new" bakken oil zone
map?

Want me to explain the capital investment of potash
coming?

Want me to tell you how much oil is there?

Want me to tell you the price of oil in five years?

Want me to tell you what is about to happen in
manitoba?

Ever touched bakken oil with your own fingers and
see that it takes about a cheese cloth to refine it to
fuel capacity?

[oneoff]

Its pretty hard to get an invitation to the council supper held before each council meeting. And the council typically goes into closed session without any explanation of what subject is to be discussed. And I will not repeat what has already been reported about ratepayer attendance in this forum. I invite you to reread previous posts. It gets to be a drag trying to bring slow learners up to speed.
It seems that few people can grasp what should be seen as the real problems. You want to talk about the messenger; that is not where the basic injustices lie.

[dustyroad]

How Many user names do you have i count 4

[jackspratwhynot]

Hobby... You are only slightly correct in your assessment. I can assure you that there is little advice that anyone can add beyond my present knowledge of "petitions for a referendum"; rights of ratepayers as regards municipal meetings; minutes; agenndas; nominations, acclamations, elections; and maybe even the Municipal Act and Local Government Elections Act in Sask. I've been involved in everyone of those legal rights and responsibilities around the council table and most often from the gallery. And for a 40 year period.
Unfortunately I have encountered relatively few persons who shared the idea that on their own councillors have no more authority to act than the ratepayers they represent. They only gain that authority through the Municipal Act, bylaws of the municipality and the council decisions that are passed. Unfortunately common major defects in democracy have evolved; but I assure you it is unfair to heap all the blame on persons who have only had elected positions for a relatively short period in their careers; and have spent most of their life attempting education from the outside trying to look in.
I've got a lot more self interest to gain with land price offers that escalate to the moon. And I'm winding work down to retirement and looking for less opportunities; rather than what you might think.
I also remember sometimes doing the exact opposite of what others would judge to be in my best interests.

[jackspratwhynot]

Nice to see you can count. Can you count to 10? I doubt it? I'm giving up on you.

[jackspratwhynot]

Council meeting Feb. 9/2012; councillors clear out just before midnight. Then "dustyroad" appears on agriville for the first time (according to the agriville search engine) less than 24 hours later. Coincidence; or heaven forbid a two-timer; or what I would be more interested in; is there is some obscure connection to the council meeting that dustyroad did not attend.