$300,000.00 agri- instability welfare to the rich cheques.

[bgmb]

Parsley,

Good farmers and business prople don't put their livelihood on the line to prove a point! Thats what you would be doing if you don't participate in these farm welfare programs. lol

I wouldn't care if these programs were canceled as long as they were for everyone in all industries and other free trade nations.

As I stated above I have collected next to nothing from these programs over the years because I keep increasing my production over time and farm enough acres that things often even out.

But I still don't mind getting some of my taxes back once and awhile!

[parsley]

"but THEY are matching agri-invest deposits
100%. "

Compliments of an unwilling Joe the Plumber.
Pars

[farmaholic]

Parsley: When producers have the ability to price their products according to costs of production and built in profit margins then I will refuse to participate in the programs offered. I've said it before, governments must see value in primary agriculture in both economic contributions and food security if they are willing to provide support(when needed).
Who in their right mind would take this kind of risk, seems if one is'nt born into it one would never chance it.

[farmaholic]

"I" pay taxes too!!!

[parsley]

"Good farmers and business prople don't put their
livelihood on the line to prove a point! Thats what
you would be doing if you don't participate in
these farm welfare programs."

Ahhhhh, "good" farmers.

The farmers I spoke with have a contingency plan
in place to cover a bad year. It's because they are
'good' farmers that they don't expect Joe the
Plumber to buy 365 X 3 meals for every farmer's
bad year.

We have a different concept of what a "good"
farmer really is, yes we do; good to go vs good to
mooch. Pars

[bgmb]

Parsley

The measure of success in business is how much money you make.

If the gov is going to give it out I am not going to be the one left behind cause I'm too proud.

Do you get that? or no.

[farmaholic]

We have entered a time in history where the urban population has grown to a point that the dependence on people who grow food is scary. If they aren't willing to protect the producers of their food maybe they can change their lifestyle. Instead of spending weekends at the lake or two weeks somewhere hot in the winter they can grow a garden in the summer and preserve it. Milk a cow, butcher it's calf in fall, and raise afew chickens for meat and eggs.
Sometimes you don't miss something until its gone. I am always grateful for things people do for me that I either don't want to do myself or can't. If I can do it myself cheaper or it's something I want to do, I will, otherwise I am glad to pay to have it done.

[bgmb]

Parsley do you realize how silly your point of view is.

Do you build your own roads to drive on because you don't want to drive on a road that someone else paid for.

Do you not grow crops that have been bred by the gov.

How about National Parks, do you visit them or stay away? lol

As I stated in me first post I agree society would be far better off without these wealth redistribution schemes. But I have to live in the here and now.

[parsley]

"The measure of success in business is how
much money you make. "

Greece holds that view.

There is longer view.

1.Any industry that lobbies and begs for money is
beholden to the lender. That includes government
lenders. You will eventually do exactly as you are
ordered.

2. A culture of dependence dissolves innovation.

3. Any industry that cannot survive without
handouts will eventually die.

4. Whether it's his mother or the nation that has to
boroow money to keep a farmer's tractor gassed
up, inevitably it spells economic disaster for
either lender, and for the farmer. That is not
making money. That is the purest definition of
stupidy one could enter on wikipedia. Parsley

[cottonpicken]

The whole system is so totally screwed there is no
point in feeling guilty about government handouts.

Workers pay into social security to support those that
are retread and the new workers will never see a
dime(or one that buys anything).

Tax payers back stop mortgages of multi million
dollar condos in hongcuver who's buyers are simply
speculators.

Tax payers pay for health care costs of people who
don't take care of themselves.

Etc

etc

etc

etc

[parsley]

If it was announced that the entire
AgriInvest/Stability program would be terminated
in 2013, is there anyone on this website who
could NOT survive? Pars

[farmaholic]

"but they
refuse to participate because they feel the
principle of the program is not the direction
agriculture should be headed."

In what direction do they think Ag should be heading?

[parsley]

Agriculture produces tremendous weath. Many
companies and governments look to agriculture
as a source of income.

Farmers create the basic blocks, Level One, of
wealth. There is ample demand and money for
farmgate production that can be realized at Level
One.

Instead, farm managers will argue they need to
lobby so they will be subsidized at Level One.

They view themselves as capable managers.

What is wrong with this picture? Pars

[farmaholic]

"What is wrong with this picture"...

Lack of control of:

Price of production(quite unique)
Cost of production(we are not alone)
Weather(huge affect)
etc
etc
etc

Even the best managers get dealt hands that no matter how they play they lose. And that I beleive is what the safety nets were meant for.

[parsley]

"Cost of production"

Most farmers chase more and more bushels.
= Higher production costs.

Farmers can chase higher farmgate prices.
= costs not rising.